I am curious about this. It must still need lubricant, stainless steel will still wear when the unlubricated surfaces best against each other.Psamathe wrote: ↑7 Jun 2022, 11:53am Chatting to engineer at LBS about chains (and chain tubes) and he commented about the muck and how to avoid it he uses a stainless chain. And I didn't delve further but the implication was it didn't need oil and thus didn't collect muck ... Is this really the case?
Ian
chain lube or wax?
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Re: chain lube or wax?
- simonineaston
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Re: chain lube or wax?
I can see how the argument is developed, but I think it's faulty.
Regardless of the material the chain's made from, the moving parts, in partic. those that are most loaded, will need lubrication. As far as I know, they are the rollers and the pins that go inside them - see picture. Where wet lube is used, it gets inside the rollers which as Good. It also lingers on the external parts and so has a tendency to attract dirt, which is Not So Good. In fact, it turns the lube into a grinding paste - Really Bad!
When using wax, the idea is that the lube enters the rollers and stays there, mostly. It also has a tendancy to flake off the outer parts, leaving them exposed to moisture. If not stainless, there may then be rust. However, if lightly coated with a suitable non-sticky water repellent, then the Best of Both Worlds has been achieved. I used a J cloth, with a dash of WD40, to wipe the newly reinstalled chain. The chain now has waxy lube inside the rollers, is dry and clean to the touch and is lightly coated with WD40 on external parts to prevent corrosion. It doesn't matter that it's not s/s.
Regardless of the material the chain's made from, the moving parts, in partic. those that are most loaded, will need lubrication. As far as I know, they are the rollers and the pins that go inside them - see picture. Where wet lube is used, it gets inside the rollers which as Good. It also lingers on the external parts and so has a tendency to attract dirt, which is Not So Good. In fact, it turns the lube into a grinding paste - Really Bad!
When using wax, the idea is that the lube enters the rollers and stays there, mostly. It also has a tendancy to flake off the outer parts, leaving them exposed to moisture. If not stainless, there may then be rust. However, if lightly coated with a suitable non-sticky water repellent, then the Best of Both Worlds has been achieved. I used a J cloth, with a dash of WD40, to wipe the newly reinstalled chain. The chain now has waxy lube inside the rollers, is dry and clean to the touch and is lightly coated with WD40 on external parts to prevent corrosion. It doesn't matter that it's not s/s.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Re: chain lube or wax?
Interesting, is wd40 not 'sticky' though?
Regarding wet rides and waxing, i usually find you can get a few wet rides out of a chain before it starts to sound dry and need re waxing, the main concern is to get the drive train dry fairly quickly. Less of a concern for the pub bike for me since a bit of minor surface rusting on cheap 9spd stuff isn't the end of the world.
If the bike is not being kept somewhere it might dry itself quickly then a quick retreatment with bottled wax lube might be a less hassle option when needed. I converted to hot wax via the gateway of bottled stuff.
Regarding wet rides and waxing, i usually find you can get a few wet rides out of a chain before it starts to sound dry and need re waxing, the main concern is to get the drive train dry fairly quickly. Less of a concern for the pub bike for me since a bit of minor surface rusting on cheap 9spd stuff isn't the end of the world.
If the bike is not being kept somewhere it might dry itself quickly then a quick retreatment with bottled wax lube might be a less hassle option when needed. I converted to hot wax via the gateway of bottled stuff.
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
- simonineaston
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Re: chain lube or wax?
It depends... if applied in quantity, the lube elements in the cocktail that is WD40, left behind after the more volitile elements have evaporated, can be present in enough quantities to result in stickiness (but nowhere near as much as if using other heavier oils). On the other hand, a v. light application, via a cloth, doesn't leave enough on the chain links to get sticky.Interesting, is wd40 not 'sticky' though?
(Recall too that WD40 is not intended primarily as a lube, but rather as a water dispersant, hence it's name.)
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Re: chain lube or wax?
Rather than WD-40 would a PTFE spray like GT85 be a better bet as its PTFE (teflon) based so would also add to the wax base.
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway X2, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840
Re: chain lube or wax?
That's not the company's view:simonineaston wrote: ↑26 Jun 2022, 4:13pmRecall too that WD40 is not intended primarily as a lube, but rather as a water dispersant, hence it's name.
Myth: WD-40 Multi-Use Product is not really a lubricant.
Fact: While the “W-D” in WD-40 stands for Water Displacement, WD-40 Multi-Use Product is a unique, special blend of lubricants. The product’s formulation also contains anti-corrosion agents and ingredients for penetration, water displacement and soil removal.
https://www.wd40.com/myths-legends-fun-facts/
Jonathan
PS:
Myth: WD-40 Multi-Use Product should not be used on bike chains.
Fact: While WD-40 Multi-Use Product it is not a grease, it is formulated with strong lubricating oils and other ingredients, and is a terrific product to use for bike maintenance. It does not attract dirt or moisture to metal surfaces – just be sure to wipe off any excess WD-40 Multi-Use Product before riding.
For long-term lubrication and other specialized bicycle maintenance needs, check out WD-40 Specialist BIKE products. Developed specifically for cyclists and mechanics, this high-performance line of bicycle care products is sure to become a mainstay in the toolboxes of bike mechanics for decades.
Re: chain lube or wax?
when you lot say Putolie chain wax do you mean this stuff (which is what google pops up)?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unknown-1-Puto ... 1627&psc=1
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unknown-1-Puto ... 1627&psc=1
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Re: chain lube or wax?
Yes.mattsccm wrote: ↑27 Jun 2022, 6:19am when you lot say Putolie chain wax do you mean this stuff (which is what google pops up)?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unknown-1-Puto ... 1627&psc=1
Re: chain lube or wax?
When using molten wax, how do you judge when it needs re-doing? I last did my chain in January, have done about 1500 miles since then, and it still seems to be fine. Between hot dips I give it the occasional wipe over with a solution of beeswax in turpentine, just to ensure it doesn't rust. It's a Rohloff drivetrain, if that matters. I'm surprised by how often others do it.
Re: chain lube or wax?
Good question. The chain is quiet and flexible. Subjectively, it seems to rotate freely and doesn't feel like harder work than it did when fresh out of the wax bath. No rusting after a wet ride.How are you assessing that, please?
In theory -- I hope a proper tribologist or engineer will correct me if I'm wrong -- I imagine that once the wax is there in between the rollers and solidified, it shouldn't wash out. Maybe it gradually gets squeezed out and needs to be replaced, but to do that it would need to soften in use. This line of thought suggests wax should be very long lasting. I don't rely on this, and re-do it about twice a year, or sooner if I think it needs it.
Re: chain lube or wax?
The £29 does seem a bit excessive. Are you aware of cheaper wax that does a similar job?when you lot say Putolie chain wax do you mean this stuff (which is what google pops up)?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unknown-1-Puto ... 1627&psc=1
Re: chain lube or wax?
I think the best advice I have read is to twist a few links of the chain (preferably wearing nitrile/latex gloves). It should be apparent whether the space between the rollers and rivets is still full of wax or if it has been pushed or washed out.ed.lazda wrote: ↑27 Jun 2022, 9:47am When using molten wax, how do you judge when it needs re-doing? I last did my chain in January, have done about 1500 miles since then, and it still seems to be fine. Between hot dips I give it the occasional wipe over with a solution of beeswax in turpentine, just to ensure it doesn't rust. It's a Rohloff drivetrain, if that matters. I'm surprised by how often others do it.
Re: chain lube or wax?
If you think you can use it 29 times,more than likely many more,it works out cheap in th long runDe Sisti wrote: ↑27 Jun 2022, 11:07amThe £29 does seem a bit excessive. Are you aware of cheaper wax that does a similar job?when you lot say Putolie chain wax do you mean this stuff (which is what google pops up)?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unknown-1-Puto ... 1627&psc=1
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden