chain lube or wax?

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TrevA
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Re: UFO Drip chain lube

Post by TrevA »

reohn2 wrote: 4 Jun 2022, 11:10pm
TrevA wrote: 4 Jun 2022, 10:55pm
reohn2 wrote: 4 Jun 2022, 10:49pm If you shop around you can buy two quality 10sp chains for about £36.
How long do reviews claim chains last using this super lube?
I run 11 speed, and it’s not just chain wear that’s a factor, cassette and chainring wear are too. 11 speed cassettes are about £70. 11 speed chains about £25 each.
TBH I'm highly suspicious of a chain lube costing more than a third the price of a chain and cassette.
If you look after your drivetrain buy cleaning and lubing it regularly,you should get three chains before the cassette is toast,at least that's what I've always got 8,9 and 10sp drivetrains,I've no expedience of 11sp.
Having now fully read the article I linked to earlier in the thread. It seems to suggest that you can extend the life of your chain and cassette considerably by using UFO Drip. He suggests that you can get 10,000km out of a chain, though you have relube it every 200km, which might be a faff. I can get 6000km out of a chain on my summer bike, but only about 3-4,000km on my winter bike. Whether it’s financially worthwhile is another matter. Might be better to accept more chain wear and replace your chain more often.
Sherwood CC and Notts CTC.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com
reohn2
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Re: UFO Drip chain lube

Post by reohn2 »

TrevA wrote: 5 Jun 2022, 10:20pm ...... Whether it’s financially worthwhile is another matter. Might be better to accept more chain wear and replace your chain more often.
Those were my thoughts too.

It'd be great if there were a long lasting magic lube that preserved the chain longer but £36 for 180ml is an expensive experiment IMO

I've done quite a bit of reseach for the best chain lube and found TF2 aerosol lasted well,approx 200miles between relubes,though all day rain tends to wash it off,it attracted the least dirt and grit.
Keeping the chain clean and lubed is IME the key to longer chain life.
The thicker lubes such as TF2 Extreme and Finnishline Wet tended to attract the most road grit and gum up the chain.
Dry lubes tended to last shortest needing relubing as often as 50miles or less.
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LancsGirl
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Re: UFO Drip chain lube

Post by LancsGirl »

TrevA wrote: 4 Jun 2022, 10:53pm Rated 10/10 by Zero Friction Cycling. I’ll let you read their test protocol here:

https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-c ... Draft1.pdf
"Rated 10/10" isn't quite accurate. What Adam actually rates UFO it as is:

"Race Day Lubricant - MTB - CX length races only– 10/10 "

but later in the same testing results he says:

"Everyday Lubricant – ?/10"
then
"Harsh Conditions Lubricant – 10/10 – if the event is short."
then
"Single Application for Long event – ?/10"

His ? ratings don't seem to be for its characteristics as a lubricant, but more based around cost and ease of application. It's worth remembering that Adam Kerrin (of Zero Friction Cycling) is in Australia, Adelaide in fact. Which given the climate difference between there and here, it might be worth taking into consideration the ease of application thing.

That's a long review, by the way. I'm not thinking of starting to use UFO at the moment, but if you are you won't find better information than that review.

ZFC is a fantastic resource, by the way. I am full of admiration for how thorough Adam Kerin is in his work on this subject.

I've got 3 chains waiting to go on, plus lots of "ordinary" oil lube - half full bottles I've inherited. I'll carry on with my current lubrication protocol until those chains are all gone. Then I will probably move over to waxing, using Molten Speed Wax.
Nearholmer
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Re: UFO Drip chain lube

Post by Nearholmer »

For my money, a chain lubricant needs to have two qualities: it should lubricate (obvious, eh?); and, it shouldn’t enthusiastically accumulate every grain of soil from miles around and incorporate it to create the world’s most effective grinding paste.

I’ve been using either Muc Off Wet or a similar product that I forget the name of, because both do the former, and survive puddles and downpours, but both are right bnggers for doing the latter, which is serious stuff if you cycle off-road a fair bit as I do.

Some people on the Gravel Bike forum recommend wax-type lubricants as less likely to accumulate dirt, but, not wishing to be unkind, there are a lot of early-adopters and trend-followers in that group, and I’d more trust advice here, which tends to come from people with deeper experience, and less willingness to spend money on the latest thing until it’s proven.

What do ‘tourers’, who must encounter off-road-like roads in their globe-trottings, use?
reohn2
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Re: UFO Drip chain lube

Post by reohn2 »

Just to add,the majority of my riding was(I haven't ridden for over 12months)was roughstuff/MTB in all weathers and conditions.
Exclusively fine weather road rider's chains have much easier life.
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531colin
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Re: UFO Drip chain lube

Post by 531colin »

531colin wrote: 5 Jun 2022, 5:48pm Finish line wet for me, all year.
Applied in really, really small amounts......quickly run the nozzle along the top and bottom chain run, so the rollers have a barely-visible dot of oil on them. And leave it for a bit before riding, so the oil runs in a bit, its not left on the surface to get blathered all over the cogs.....obviously, you can't run dry and then use such a tiny amount, so I apply a bit of oil before the chain starts "zizz-ing".
And the less oil you put on at a time, the less muck you pick up. My chains aren't anywhere near "Mick F. clean" but they aren't blathered in muck. I generally give it all a "strip down clean" annually, when there is a lot of vegetation between the cassette sprockets, but little black gunge.
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Mick F
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Re: UFO Drip chain lube

Post by Mick F »

Sigh .................
Yet another system ............. that costs loadsa money.

I'll repeat my mantra for those who've not read my posts on the matter. :wink:

Fit your chain with a removable AND reusable chain link.
Every hundred miles(?) or so depending on weather conditions, remove the chain and clean it thoroughly.
I preferred Gunk, but now I use Screwfix degreaser. Some prefer white spirit.
Fish your chain out of the jar/tin you've put it all in after giving it a good soak and a shoogle about.
Wash it in hot soapy water and clean the degreaser off.
Rinse in hot fresh water and hang it up to dry.
When dry, refit it and lubricate it with your favourite chain lube ............ that you haven't spent a fortune on.

It can help if you have two or three chains. One on, one in the wash, and one ready.

The cleaner you keep your chain, the longer it and your cassette will last.
Mick F. Cornwall
Jamesh
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Re: UFO Drip chain lube

Post by Jamesh »

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Mick F
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Re: UFO Drip chain lube

Post by Mick F »

Back in the days of Freewheel Magazine and catalogue - early 1980s(?) - LPS3 was the chain lube of choice.
Specifically aimed at bicycle chains and came in small aerosols with a plastic tube to slot into the nozzle. It even had a bicycle logo on the can.

You can buy LPS3 these days, but the bike world seems to have forgotten about it .......... or have they forgotten about the bike world?

https://www.techsil.co.uk/lps3-rust-inhibitor-380ml
Mick F. Cornwall
slowster
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Re: UFO Drip chain lube

Post by slowster »

Nearholmer wrote: 6 Jun 2022, 6:28am Some people on the Gravel Bike forum recommend wax-type lubricants as less likely to accumulate dirt, but, not wishing to be unkind, there are a lot of early-adopters and trend-followers in that group, and I’d more trust advice here, which tends to come from people with deeper experience, and less willingness to spend money on the latest thing until it’s proven.
There are a number of threads, some of them very long, on the Singletrackworld forum about using Putoline, e.g. https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topi ... uestion-3/. The subject has been discussed so often and at such length, with people having different experiences and opinions, that you would probably get a reasonably balanced perspective from those threads.

I've hesitated to comment because I have only just started to use Putoline, my mileage is low compared to many on here, and the bike I ride which experiences the worst conditions (gritty and sometimes muddy off-road) has a full chaincover. For what it is worth, my experience so far is positive, and Putoline is lasting longer than the ordinary wax lubricants I had been using previously. Presumably the high percentage of solvent an ordinary wax needs in order for it to flow and penetrate into the rollers results in less wax being deposited, than immersion of the entire chain in wax heated above its melting point which then cools and solidifies in the chain.

Whether it is better than TF2 or Finish Line Wet I cannot say, but I do prefer wax chain lubricants for their characteristic of not picking up so much grit and dust when riding on a gravel track/off road.

As I understand it, Putoline uses graphite as its extreme pressure additive, and the other main EP additives used in lubricants are molybdenum sulphide or PTFE powder, which are sometimes in DIY wax formulations. My guess is that graphite is cheaper than the other two, and possibly a bit less effective, but it seems good enough to me. From some of the information posted on the recent GT85 thread about PTFE and its persistance/pervasiveness as an environmental pollutant, graphite (and MoS2) seem to be better environmental choices for a lubricant which is inevitably, by virtue of being on an exposed chain, going to shed/be washed off and enter the sewerage system and water courses.

From the comments I have read on the Singletrackworld forum, Putoline does not appear to be particularly good at corrosion protection of the exposed chain surfaces, e.g. the side plates, something which I think it probably shares with wax lubricants in general. I think the answer to that is to give the exterior of the chain a coat of a thin water dispersant/repellent like WD40, e.g. spray on or run the chain through an impregnated rag, and then allow the solvent in the substance to flash off (that was Brucey's advice, because if you ride the bike instead of leaving the chain to stand while the solvent evaporates, much more of the solvent will penetrate the rollers and strip whatever lubricant is in there).

With Putoline it is a good idea to buy a small cheap deep fat fryer to heat the wax in (some use a slow cooker). Using the fryer's basket to lift the chain out and then tilt slightly to one side and the other to encourage surplus wax to run off the chain and drain back into the fryer, and then hook onto the edge of the fryer while the chain cools, is a lot easier than some of the other methods detailed in the Singletrackworld threads. A one litre fryer is the right size, and I use this one, the grey colour of which has the advantage of looking less grubby:

https://direct.asda.com/george/home/coo ... lt,pd.html
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TrevA
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Re: UFO Drip chain lube

Post by TrevA »

ZFC also recommend MSpeedWax but it’s not available in this country. You take your chain off and put it in the molten, heated up wax. Sounds like Putoline Wax is similar.

Years ago, when I had a motorbike, I had a big tin of wax that you heated up and put your motorbike chain in. I tried my cycle chain in it and it worked quite well, but did leave a thick coating on the chain, which flaked off when you rode it.
Sherwood CC and Notts CTC.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com
tippo12
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Re: UFO Drip chain lube

Post by tippo12 »

Two pennerth for wax from another old git who used 3 in 1 for the first 40 years of cycling life. My background is 60+ years riding tandems, cycle commuting to school, college, work, RSF type with old git CTC tendencies and lifetime of cycle camping tours etc, all while weighing in at over 120kg - so I destroy chains (and back wheels).

I used Putoline when it was called Linklyfe - from the late 70s onwards, initially on motorcycle trials bike chains as its ability to shed grit and mud made it a real winner, but the smell when cooking chains meant the old "biscuit tin" of wax on a camping stove lived in the shed, it worked better than scott oilers etc but needed REGULAR re treatment. Once motorbikes got bigger and faster O ring chains were not at all friendly for regular chain removal and cleaning, so the tin retired to shed shelf until I read a research article from the States many years ago, they found the least friction on a bicycle chain from using water as a lube, whilst acknowledging this info is not really helpful. Second best lube beating all the oils was paraffin wax, hence my decision to reuse the old tin of motorcycle wax/graphite chain stuff in the shed on my bicycles.
At the time, about 2006 we were destroying an 8 speed drive chain on a tandem (used 52 weeks a year) every 800 winter to 1200 summer miles (measured after every ride with Park chain checker). Sets of rings and cassettes were replaced at least annually. I tried every manufacturers chains, none, not even Rohloff showed significantly longer mileage. I tried wet, dry, 3 in 1 and expensive lubes of every type, chain scrubbers, paraffin parts cleaners, and seemed to spend a day a week covered in dirty oil and chemicals. About that time I bought 25kg of chain offcuts from SJS Cycles (mostly SRAM 8 speed) as we were using so many chains.

For well over 10 years now I have used putoline, in a £6 slow cooker from Wilko and it works perfectly well on push bike chains. No need to wipe off with solvents or pre clean chains before re coating, simply put them dirty into the melted wax pot for 10 minutes and jiggle them about a bit before lifting them off to drain, I hang mine on bent old spokes, they drip dry! When dry I rub them with a large scouring pad to remove excess from the outer plates, scraping go back into the pot. I remove and clean wax buildup off the chain rings, cassette and jockey wheel cage about once every 2 years, one sunny day and the whole fleet gets done.

I run three chains on each bike, one on, two ready, and swap chains at about 200 mile intervals, which is fine for days rides. On holidays if not using the camper van I take a bottle of white wax lube to "top up" until we get home, old knees means we don't tour for longer than a week these days. When I turn the pot on to lube one chain that is wet or after 200 miles I re lube the chains fitted on all the other bikes at the same time as quick links make it a 2 minute job, and ensures chains are always ready to go! I am still using that same first tin of lube, £25 tin of lube and £6 slow cooker have so far lubed a family of bikes/tandems in two homes for over a decade.

CONS: Wax lubes have NO RUSTPROOFING properties, if it rains or you have a wet ride, you immediately have to re-treat the chain.
When you get home cold and wet from a winter ride if you forgot to turn that slow cooker on before going out you will curse..........
PROS: My road bikes, one here and one in Ireland with Ma in law, both run Campy 10 speed, and are on the same 3 Record chains and Campy chain rings and cassettes that have been fitted now for 10+ years, no discernible teeth wear and none of the chains have more than 0.4mm wear yet on the CC1. I like that.
Our Tandem is running 8 speed Campy rings and cassette with SRAM chain (the old pre Portugal stuff, as stated above I have a stock of chain) it has taken three years to wear the first drive chain to replacement at 1mm stretch measured on the CC1.
No oily legs or clothes, especially welcomed by Senior management on the rear of the tandem, and on her town bike and mtb.
That is an hour of my life typing that I will not get back. I am not looking for a contest or an argument, just voicing personal experience in case someone else may want to enjoy the same wax lube life benefits that I do.
slowster
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Re: UFO Drip chain lube

Post by slowster »

tippo12 wrote: 6 Jun 2022, 11:25am if it rains or you have a wet ride, you immediately have to re-treat the chain. When you get home cold and wet from a winter ride if you forgot to turn that slow cooker on before going out you will curse.
You have far more experience than I do, but if I get caught in the rain, my approach has always been to spray the chain with GT85 or WD40 as soon as I get back. They are effective water dispersants, and any road salt etc. that is disolved in the water should be dispersed as well. Later after the solvent had evaporated, I would apply cold wax lubricant if the chain lubrication needed topping up. I intend to do likewise with the chains I have now treated with Putoline, i.e. spray the chain with a water disperant post wet ride and leave, and later re-treat with Putoline only if needed.

My deep fat fryer takes 5-10 minutes to get up to the 130 degree settting I use. The first time I treated a chain, I was expecting to have to wipe and squeeze excess wax stuck to the side plates and in between the rollers, but it did not appear to me that I needed to do this. Certainly there were thin patches of black/grey wax on the side plates even after I had tilted the chain in the fryer basket to encourage excess wax to run off, but that did not bother me. I am not fussed about having a shiny silver chain, and the chains are now a uniform dull grey. In winter my plan is to give the chain an occasional wipe with a WD40 impregnated rag between wax applications, but it does not seem to need that now, so for the moment I'll just keep the WD40 for use immediately after getting back from a wet ride.
freeflow
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Re: UFO Drip chain lube

Post by freeflow »

Another vote for Hot wax. I have two KMC E1 EPC coated chains that I use on my 'bike for life' which has a single speed chain line (gears in a can) but is not an electric bike. I am now at 11,000km distance since Augustt 2020 and I still can't get the prongs of a Park Tools CC2 chain length checker between the links. Me and the bike weigh in at 125 kg.

Mrs F is using a
Hot waxed 10 speed KMC EPC coated chain on her e-bike. After 1200 miles it is only 0.2% worn.
LancsGirl
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Re: UFO Drip chain lube

Post by LancsGirl »

TrevA wrote: 6 Jun 2022, 10:13am ZFC also recommend MSpeedWax but it’s not available in this country.
Yes it is, as are the YBN chains that Adam Kerin at ZFC recommends:

https://inaspin.co.uk/

Well, OK, he's sold out at the moment, but I'm sure that is temporary. He was sold out of YBN chains for a while, but he's got them in now. I've emailed the site owner, and he replied. It's an active business, not a "zombie" web site.
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