IOM TT Races - Death Rate

[briansnail]

Cycling? Drugs are/were prevalent. If other people do it then to win its difficult to be clean eg Tom Simpson in Mount Ventoux.

[Cugel]

I(snip) The successful TT racers often seem to be specialist TT bikers. Not many road races are quite like it, I think it's a sign it's out of its time and needs something changed to reduce deaths. But that's the opinion of someone who already fossils dislikes the whole IoM TT thing for many reasons. One of which is the bikers who go there or copy the riding style of the racers on the course and elsewhere. I used to meet up with a guy who lived in an area bikers meet up in and racing on country roads is scary at times. I've been missed by bikers by a margin of inches there before now. IMHO as long at you have bike racing on roads or race courses you'll have normal bikers copying the riding of racers I think. Glorifying speed in races is not a positive thing with machines as fast as bikes. Cars too I think.

As you'll probably have experienced, there are many mad motorcyclists riding NE of Lancaster, converging on Kirkby Lonsdale, where they gaggle on the bridge over The Lune. One can judge that a proportion of them are mad by joining any of the local cycling clubs and going out for rides on the mad motorcyclists' favourite day, a Sunday.

You'll likely get buzzed by small groups of them hurtling along the Lune Valley and thereabouts, at silly speeds, with exhausts roaring. They will seek the "best line" never mind if there's a few cyclist on it.

And sadly, your cycling will be temporarily stopped as you wait for a rozzer to wave you past the scene of "an accident" in which a lone mad motorcyclist, or maybe more, have misjudged "the best line" and instead hit a line of stones known as a drystone wall, common thereabouts. The fools are generally dead.

In summer, it was not uncommon to come across such a scene every Sunday run. Around the time of the Manx TT was also a time at which the chance of seeing sad such events was increased. The Manx TT is a glorification of motorcycling modes on public roads that are not appropriate ... but nevertheless copied by wannabees in significant numbers.

Cugel

[PedallingSquares]

I(snip) The successful TT racers often seem to be specialist TT bikers. Not many road races are quite like it, I think it's a sign it's out of its time and needs something changed to reduce deaths. But that's the opinion of someone who already fossils dislikes the whole IoM TT thing for many reasons. One of which is the bikers who go there or copy the riding style of the racers on the course and elsewhere. I used to meet up with a guy who lived in an area bikers meet up in and racing on country roads is scary at times. I've been missed by bikers by a margin of inches there before now. IMHO as long at you have bike racing on roads or race courses you'll have normal bikers copying the riding of racers I think. Glorifying speed in races is not a positive thing with machines as fast as bikes. Cars too I think.

Why?
That's how they sell performance cars and bikes.The top speed of bikes hasn't really risen that much in the last 20 years and isn't likely to due to restrictions.I had a 170mph bike back in the early 1990s.Now the top bikes are restricted to 189mph.You'll obviously get the idiots who will try to do 189mph on roads that are simply not made for it but you get idiots in all walks of life.What is scary to you is fun to someone else.My father in law thinks doing 60mph on a 60mph road is scary and he will drive at 40mph regardless.He has HGVs overtaking him on the M1

As you'll probably have experienced, there are many mad motorcyclists riding NE of Lancaster, converging on Kirkby Lonsdale, where they gaggle on the bridge over The Lune. One can judge that a proportion of them are mad by joining any of the local cycling clubs and going out for rides on the mad motorcyclists' favourite day, a Sunday.
You'll likely get buzzed by small groups of them hurtling along the Lune Valley and thereabouts, at silly speeds, with exhausts roaring. They will seek the "best line" never mind if there's a few cyclist on it.
And sadly, your cycling will be temporarily stopped as you wait for a rozzer to wave you past the scene of "an accident" in which a lone mad motorcyclist, or maybe more, have misjudged "the best line" and instead hit a line of stones known as a drystone wall, common thereabouts. The fools are generally dead.
In summer, it was not uncommon to come across such a scene every Sunday run. Around the time of the Manx TT was also a time at which the chance of seeing sad such events was increased. The Manx TT is a glorification of motorcycling modes on public roads that are not appropriate ... but nevertheless copied by wannabees in significant numbers.
Cugel

That's a pretty broad generalisation.
I've been going to Devils Bridge for 30-odd years(as an adult) and yes some of us do ride quickly.Mad?No.Fools?No.There are plenty of folk on other forums who say pretty much the same about cyclists
I started out cycling there from our holiday accommodation as a child in the 70s.I still cycle there when I'm in the area.It's always been a mecca for the engined 2-wheelers and there's always a few cyclists there too.I'm always drawn to the other when I'm out.If I'm cycling and a bike goes past at speed I wish I was on my bike and if i'm on my bike cracking on at pace and I pass a cyclist(s) I always wish I was on my push bike

[Cugel]

As you'll probably have experienced, there are many mad motorcyclists riding NE of Lancaster, converging on Kirkby Lonsdale, where they gaggle on the bridge over The Lune. One can judge that a proportion of them are mad by joining any of the local cycling clubs and going out for rides on the mad motorcyclists' favourite day, a Sunday.
You'll likely get buzzed by small groups of them hurtling along the Lune Valley and thereabouts, at silly speeds, with exhausts roaring. They will seek the "best line" never mind if there's a few cyclist on it.
And sadly, your cycling will be temporarily stopped as you wait for a rozzer to wave you past the scene of "an accident" in which a lone mad motorcyclist, or maybe more, have misjudged "the best line" and instead hit a line of stones known as a drystone wall, common thereabouts. The fools are generally dead.
In summer, it was not uncommon to come across such a scene every Sunday run. Around the time of the Manx TT was also a time at which the chance of seeing sad such events was increased. The Manx TT is a glorification of motorcycling modes on public roads that are not appropriate ... but nevertheless copied by wannabees in significant numbers.
Cugel

That's a pretty broad generalisation.
I've been going to Devils Bridge for 30-odd years(as an adult) and yes some of us do ride quickly.Mad?No.Fools?No.There are plenty of folk on other forums who say pretty much the same about cyclists
I started out cycling there from our holiday accommodation as a child in the 70s.I still cycle there when I'm in the area.It's always been a mecca for the engined 2-wheelers and there's always a few cyclists there too.I'm always drawn to the other when I'm out.If I'm cycling and a bike goes past at speed I wish I was on my bike and if i'm on my bike cracking on at pace and I pass a cyclist(s) I always wish I was on my push bike

Not a generalisation at all but a first hand observation of what seems a disproportionate number of motor cycling crashes, happily (if that's the right word) not usually involving other roads users, in an area that's a mecca for all kinds of motor cyclists, only "a proportion of them" trying and failing to emulate the behaviour of TT racers on public roads with, all the attendant dangers of such roads.

Are these road racing fellows just happily enjoying the pleasures of riding very fast, knowing and accepting the risks? I doubt any of them has assessed the risk in a way that suggests they stand a significant chance of crashing and dying. No, they seem likely to be doing the wishful-thunk method of risk assessment; "I don't want it to happen so it won't".

But I suspect that you know all this in a much more intimate way than I do, having a much closer relationship with other motor cyclists, including those few drawn to Devil's Bridge for the "lookit me the TT racer" opportunities. I'm surprised you're so tolerant of what is certainly foolish behaviour since (as with cyclists or any "othered" group") such behaviour will get you, as a motor cyclist, a bad name.

In a cycling club run, there are always a couple of fools who behave rashly on the Sunday run because they imagine they're in a race. The more savvy members of the club generally smack them down - if it's a club with a long and good tradition, including a knowledge of just how dangerous it can be to push the envelope in an environment as unpredictable as a public highway.

On the other hand, death or serious maiming from a cycling crash is a rare thing compared to those involving motor cycles, cars and other fast-heavy machines. A cycling sprint for the village sign is far, far less dangerous than trying, on a motorbike, for the bend at 85mph with only 60 yards of sighting ahead.

Cugel

[PedallingSquares]

As I said upthread if you hit a wall at 200mph you're dead.I know this.I also know that everytime I go out cranking it up around the Peak District/Lake District/Yorkshire Dales/Moors there's a reasonable chance it might be my last.All riders will know this.My brother put himself in hospital a few years ago,compound fractures to both arms and legs,broken shoulder.It happens.It was quite funny listenning to all the banter from fellow bikers visiting him
You have one life,live it.
If I die riding either my motorbike or my road bike I will die doing something I love.
To quote a film "better to crash and burn than fade away"

[thirdcrank]

But the rest of us have only one life to live

[mattheus]

But the rest of us have only one life to live

I think that's been covered:

You have one life,live it.

[thirdcrank]

That's what I was replying to. Sorry if it wasn't abundantly clear

[Cugel]

That's what I was replying to. Sorry if it wasn't abundantly clear

May I be even clearer?

What does the family of the motorbike racer feel?

If one wants to take high risks of some sort or other, it can be done in facilities that reduce the cost of the risks realising, to oneself and others. It can be done away from those not too keen to lose their own life to service the whim of someone wanting to "live" his by taking high risks and losing it.

As to the wife, parents, children and others left behind grieving .... well, there's no compensation will do to remove the awful pains of bereavement, eh?

[reohn2]

I lost my granddaughter Leah Rebecca aged 19 when one of those lunatic motorcyclists ran into her whilst showing off his wheeling skills.
Her indentical twin sister Sarah,I don't know what to write about the pain she,and the rest of the family have suffered and still do as a result of that madman,who also killed himself in the process.

One life lost leaves a huge hole in the lives of people left behind,it was ten years ago and we still miss her and cry,you don't want this kind of pain.

The motorcycle isn't the cause of death and injury,it's the misuse of it that's the problem

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
The count is now five!
I'm not sure of the worst year, but I think we're getting there probably.
I know they've done a lot of safety in the Covid downtime, I'm sure they're going to analyse what's going on later.

Not had time to catch up on all the posts yet, off on the bike at the moment.

[Bonefishblues]

Hi,
The count is now five!
I'm not sure of the worst year, but I think we're getting there probably.
I know they've done a lot of safety in the Covid downtime, I'm sure they're going to analyse what's going on later.

Not had time to catch up on all the posts yet, off on the bike at the moment.

Worst since 1989, when 5 people also died. Father and son outfit yesterday

[fastpedaller]

I do get the arguments both for/against the TT re: risks, I am amazed that it is allowed to happen,

"I am amazed that it is allowed to happen" could also be said of the thousands of folk killed directly by motor vehicles, and indirectly by other effects (eg pollution and lack of exercise), but it's accepted, as are many other risks.

[thirdcrank]

IMO the TT and similar events are lawful in the IOM and that's that. It's up to manxpersons - or whatever they are called.

Problems arise when some people - perhaps those insufficiently skilled to qualify for the real thing - feel it's acceptable to ride in a broadly similar manner here where it's not lawful. Then we get self-serving guff of the Leader of the pack genre

[Jdsk]

I do get the arguments both for/against the TT re: risks, I am amazed that it is allowed to happen,

"I am amazed that it is allowed to happen" could also be said of the thousands of folk killed directly by motor vehicles, and indirectly by other effects (eg pollution and lack of exercise), but it's accepted, as are many other risks.

This is whataboutery. Something else being bad or undesirable doesn't affect the merits of this case.

Jonathan