Ferry Pricing (Bent Trike)

[Psamathe]

Following a comment made in another thread, I've just checked with Brittany Ferries about trikes on their ferries and they checked and they must be booked as and are priced as a car! Random crossing and the price goes from £80 for a bike to £272 for a trike (same crossing, both "economy", same departure).

Questioned and they have considered it and that is their decision.

I intend to pursue it through their complaints but do others have experience of bent trikes on ferries and pricing?

Ian

[[XAP]Bob]

I'd be asking if they'll charge me a car price for my wheelchair (IIRC an approach you could also take).

If they can't tell who has asked then I'd just book a bike space and say "well it's a bike, but due to disability I can't ride only two wheels"

[Tigerbiten]

Push trikes are so rare that I assume that they've priced you for a motor trike.
Of the +100 ferries I've used on tour I've only been charged the push bike price.
I'm sure if you ask for the price for a trailer they'll tell you it's a silly price as well.
The trailer on the back of my trike has never been asked for money as well.

Luck ...........

[Psamathe]

Push trikes are so rare that I assume that they've priced you for a motor trike.
Of the +100 ferries I've used on tour I've only been charged the push bike price.
I'm sure if you ask for the price for a trailer they'll tell you it's a silly price as well.
The trailer on the back of my trike has never been asked for money as well.

Luck ........... :D

I spoke to them on the phone. She immediately knew what they were (I'd expected to have to describe them). Whilst on the phone I measured and told her the max width of mine 31.5" (and asked if she knew the width of a Range Rover). She double checked (about the policy, not the width of a Range Rover, "I'll have to put you on hold ..."). I explicitly said, no motors, no batteries, powered by me alone on pedals. Then went on "You must have made a mistake ... that beggars belief ..."

They double checked and also pointed me to their web site which says

Motorcycles and bicycles

You can safely take your motorcycle or bicycle on any of our ferries. We also carry the following vehicles:

Trikes (can be booked online, please select 'Car' from the vehicle options on step 1)

Motorcycle and sidecar (can be booked online, please select 'Car' from the vehicle options on step 1)

Tandem bicycle (please call our Reservations Team on 0330 159 7000 to book)

But she was very sympathetic and admitted it sounded daft and suggested I write to customer services and gave me the e-mail address for "Corporate Customer Services" (to bypass the 1st complaint level) - which I've now done and included [XAP]Bob's "How much will you charge me for my wheelchair?". Made it clear I'm looking for a quick review and change of policy.

Part of my concern is that book it as a bike and arrive at the port and they then demand an extra £200 (3½ times the price). Becomes a bit like blackmail - 20:00 at night, office and people in authority gone home and you either pay up the £200 or turn round and head home.

Since phoned Stena and they said to just book as a bike, no problem.

Ian

[triker131]

Just found my email to Mike Bevens (then commercial director) at Brittany Ferries, and his reply, dated June 13 2016, almost 6 years ago to the day.

First my email to him:

Mike, I've been informed by your colleague that you have decided to charge carriage of velomobiles on ferries at the motorcycle rate.

Please reconsider this decision. Velomobiles are similar to other touring cycles that your ferries carry in that:

They are totally human powered via pedals and chain drive.
Use standard cycle components, braking, gearing systems etc.
Similar in weight to other strongly built cycles used for touring, 15-30kgs typically.
Similar dimensions to a touring bike loaded with panniers, more tandem length.
May have small battery pack similar to those used on other touring cycles - for lights, USB powered GPS etc..

The most obvious differences from motorcycles are that:

They are much lighter.
Not motorised - no engines, fuel systems, carbs, ignition systems etc.
No heavy duty components for braking, gearbox, battery etc.
Almost silent in operation - similar noise level to any other bicycle.

ICE trikes in Falmouth, Cornwall, manufacture world class recumbent trikes (see http://www.icetrikes.co/explore-our-trikes) and export all over the world. I own a 2008 model similar to the Sprint model shown on the above webpage.

What is your view on recumbent trikes? These are more clearly tricycles but share the same componentry and footprint as a velomobile. Indeed one can purchase a "Borealis" body that attaches to all ICE trikes - to convert it into a velomobile with the attendant weather protection.

I am curious as to the factors that made you ever consider classifying velomobiles differently to bicycles/tricycles.

One further point. I know of several people who ride recumbent trikes and velomobiles because they are no longer able to safely ride regular bicycles due to balance problems, other physical injuries or disabilities, epilepsy etc. Your decision to penalise riders of unusual cycles will disproportionately discriminate against this group of riders.

Brittany Ferries could get considerable positive publicity by encouraging environmentally friendly, low carbon footprint, healthy, fresh air, cross channel cycle tourism - by offering to carry all cycles for free.

I will await your response before posting about this matter on all the major cycling discussion forums here in the UK, USA and France. I do hope I can post a positive message of support for the pro-environment, pro-cycling policies of Brittany Ferries.

In summary then:

What is the position regarding recumbent trikes?
What is your reconsidered decision regarding velomobiles?

I look forward to hearing from you,

and his reply:

Thank you for your e-mail and for taking the time to write to me in such detail.

Our vehicle prices are based on the dimension of each vehicle due to the limited space in the garages on our ships. For ease of booking we standardise vehicle types into categories such as car, van, cycle, motorcycle, motorhome etc with a selection of dimensions per vehicle type. Anything outside of these categories are considered for pricing on an individual basis at the time of booking, this includes velomobiles, motorcycle trikes, recumbent trikes or any custom built or altered vehicles. The power, gearing systems, gearboxes, noise volumes etc are all irrelevant when we price vehicle types.

The rate applied to your potential booking is that of the same category as a motorcycle due to the dimensions, but we are not applying a ‘motorcycle rate’. A velomobile has greater dimensions compared to a standard cycle and therefore the need to charge a different rate.

We are unable to carry cycles for free and if we did it would certainly be an unpopular decision with foot passengers, as well as other customers in different vehicle types. Please note that all cycles must be walked on to our ships for safety reasons.

I am sorry that you will be disappointed by my decision but as I mentioned we base our vehicle pricing on space used in the garage of our ferries.

It looks like nothing has changed.

[Psamathe]

Just found my email to Mike Bevens (then commercial director) at Brittany Ferries, and his reply, dated June 13 2016, almost 6 years ago to the day.

First my email to him:

Mike, I've been informed by your colleague that you have decided to charge carriage of velomobiles on ferries at the motorcycle rate.

Please reconsider this decision. Velomobiles are similar to other touring cycles that your ferries carry in that:

They are totally human powered via pedals and chain drive.
Use standard cycle components, braking, gearing systems etc.
Similar in weight to other strongly built cycles used for touring, 15-30kgs typically.
Similar dimensions to a touring bike loaded with panniers, more tandem length.
May have small battery pack similar to those used on other touring cycles - for lights, USB powered GPS etc..

The most obvious differences from motorcycles are that:

They are much lighter.
Not motorised - no engines, fuel systems, carbs, ignition systems etc.
No heavy duty components for braking, gearbox, battery etc.
Almost silent in operation - similar noise level to any other bicycle.

ICE trikes in Falmouth, Cornwall, manufacture world class recumbent trikes (see http://www.icetrikes.co/explore-our-trikes) and export all over the world. I own a 2008 model similar to the Sprint model shown on the above webpage.

What is your view on recumbent trikes? These are more clearly tricycles but share the same componentry and footprint as a velomobile. Indeed one can purchase a "Borealis" body that attaches to all ICE trikes - to convert it into a velomobile with the attendant weather protection.

I am curious as to the factors that made you ever consider classifying velomobiles differently to bicycles/tricycles.

One further point. I know of several people who ride recumbent trikes and velomobiles because they are no longer able to safely ride regular bicycles due to balance problems, other physical injuries or disabilities, epilepsy etc. Your decision to penalise riders of unusual cycles will disproportionately discriminate against this group of riders.

Brittany Ferries could get considerable positive publicity by encouraging environmentally friendly, low carbon footprint, healthy, fresh air, cross channel cycle tourism - by offering to carry all cycles for free.

I will await your response before posting about this matter on all the major cycling discussion forums here in the UK, USA and France. I do hope I can post a positive message of support for the pro-environment, pro-cycling policies of Brittany Ferries.

In summary then:

What is the position regarding recumbent trikes?
What is your reconsidered decision regarding velomobiles?

I look forward to hearing from you,

and his reply:

Thank you for your e-mail and for taking the time to write to me in such detail.

Our vehicle prices are based on the dimension of each vehicle due to the limited space in the garages on our ships. For ease of booking we standardise vehicle types into categories such as car, van, cycle, motorcycle, motorhome etc with a selection of dimensions per vehicle type. Anything outside of these categories are considered for pricing on an individual basis at the time of booking, this includes velomobiles, motorcycle trikes, recumbent trikes or any custom built or altered vehicles. The power, gearing systems, gearboxes, noise volumes etc are all irrelevant when we price vehicle types.

The rate applied to your potential booking is that of the same category as a motorcycle due to the dimensions, but we are not applying a ‘motorcycle rate’. A velomobile has greater dimensions compared to a standard cycle and therefore the need to charge a different rate.

We are unable to carry cycles for free and if we did it would certainly be an unpopular decision with foot passengers, as well as other customers in different vehicle types. Please note that all cycles must be walked on to our ships for safety reasons.

I am sorry that you will be disappointed by my decision but as I mentioned we base our vehicle pricing on space used in the garage of our ferries.

It looks like nothing has changed.

It has changed, they want to charge my bent trike at the rate of a Car (not a cheaper motorbike)! So it's got worse!

Ian

[Psamathe]

This policy has angered me. I think I've got a good case as just muesured the "footprint" of my DF 2-wheel bike (with panniers) and it's bigger than my trike (with panniers, folded).

• Bike footprint=1.085 sq m

• Trike footprint=1.032 sq m

(I appreciate the same is not the case for a velomobile, but I think establishing the principle distinguishing my trike (which I can measure) vs a car (which they can measure) is my current thought for pursuing (but I am open to other suggestions in what I expect will be several exchanges arguing the issue).

So if they reply "based on space taken" I have a valid response.

Ian

[triker131]

This originally came up after a velomobile rider from north London who frequently toured in France found his ticket was going to be about 3 times higher than he was used to paying for the Portsmouth Caen route. He's a retired airline pilot who had developed epilepsy and survived a 40+mph downhill crash which involved blasting through a hedge before being stopped by a 2 foot diameter oak tree, all whilst unconcious due to an epilectic event. He had minor chest bruising from the tiller steering bar. I think that quest was written off but in his replacement he had a five point harness fitted and a dead man's handle device so in the event of a further black out the brakes would automatically be applied. He would probably been very seriously injured (or worse) if he had had that blackout going downhill on any other sort of bicycle, the quest may have saved his life.

As he could no longer drive a car his quest was his only manner of independent transport. I know he thought nothing of riding from Ware to the Portsmouth ferry in a single day, about 125 miles.

It was on his behalf that I took up the cause with Brittany Ferries which resulted eventually in the exchange with the commercial director. He seems to have stopped posting on bentrider online so I don't know if he' still cycling.

[triker131]

Good point about the dimensions. In both my rotovelo and quest my elbows are firm against the inner sides of the body so it's about the same width on the road as my elbows riding an upwrong.

Official dimensions are:
rotovelo 238cm long, 80cm wide
quest 285cm long, 76.5cm wide

Before my trip with BF in Sep 2015 I did ride to the ferry port in the rotovelo and spoke to a guy there about being allowed on as a bike, he said no problem and both legs of my crossing went without booking issues.

I thought I read in another thread that BF were not taking bookings for bikes at all this spring, trying to fill the decks and cabins with cars full of passengers. My impression is that BF are not interested in catering for cyclists at all. They could really develop the market for cycle tourism in Brittany and Normandy. One option is to tour with a folder that could go on as hand luggage!

[tatanab]

Push trikes are so rare that I assume that they've priced you for a motor trike.

Exactly. I have used Brittany Ferries many times on various routes, and P&O and DFDS too, and always booked my trike (upright variety) as a bicycle. This is because 99.9% of the world thinks that anything you sit upon and pedal is a bicycle. In the case of Brittany Ferries, the reason they have a tricycle rate is surely because a motor tricycle takes up the space of a small car.

I would say that asking the question was inviting problems. A bare recumbent trike is longer than my uprights, and usually a little wider, but I do not see that causing a problem.

Edit - the first time I crossed with a trike (upright) was 50 years ago, and in 2004 a party of perhaps 12 of us (including tandem trikes) crossed together to St Malo; undoubtedly all booked as bicycles..

[Psamathe]

Push trikes are so rare that I assume that they've priced you for a motor trike.

Exactly. I have used Brittany Ferries many times on various routes, and P&O and DFDS too, and always booked my trike (upright variety) as a bicycle. This is because 99.9% of the world thinks that anything you sit upon and pedal is a bicycle. In the case of Brittany Ferries, the reason they have a tricycle rate is surely because a motor tricycle takes up the space of a small car.

I would say that asking the question was inviting problems. A bare recumbent trike is longer than my uprights, and usually a little wider, but I do not see that causing a problem.

But the risk from not resolving is that you arrive and they demand an additional twice what you already paid (making 3 times the ticket price) - at which point you pay or turn round and go home and abandon your tour. You become totally dependent on the check-in & boarding people not knowing their own rules or not wanting to cause trouble (and every company has some "jobsworths"). Their web site is specific and their Customer Servces were fully aware of what the cycles were and immediately said "it's on our web site" but went and double checked with level above because even they saw it as mad.

Even though you're classed and charged as a car you still use the cycle area on-board.

(I did also check with Stena after my shock from Brittany Ferries) - Stena (Harwich->Hoek) immediately knew what they were and immediately said "book/pay as for a bike" and they also double checked with somebody higher who confirmed "as a bike").

I have the impression the Brittany Ferries are an "outlier" seeking £££££ rather than "common sense".

Ian

[Jdsk]

I suggest writing to Cycling UK and asking if they could have a conversation with the difficult operators.

Jonathan

[pete75]

On a different route, DFDS Dover to Dunkirk in 2017. Cyclist and bike £25 each way so a hundred quid return for the pair of us. Car, which could have carried 4 cyclists and bikes, £72 return. Also port parking in Dover £6 a day and free in Dunkirk. We took the car over.

[Paulatic]

Push trikes are so rare that I assume that they've priced you for a motor trike.

Exactly. I have used Brittany Ferries many times on various routes, and P&O and DFDS too, and always booked my trike (upright variety) as a bicycle. This is because 99.9% of the world thinks that anything you sit upon and pedal is a bicycle. In the case of Brittany Ferries, the reason they have a tricycle rate is surely because a motor tricycle takes up the space of a small car.

I would say that asking the question was inviting problems. A bare recumbent trike is longer than my uprights, and usually a little wider, but I do not see that causing a problem.

Edit - the first time I crossed with a trike (upright) was 50 years ago, and in 2004 a party of perhaps 12 of us (including tandem trikes) crossed together to St Malo; undoubtedly all booked as bicycles..

Totally agree. Seem to creating a problem which isn’t there. Forget it’s got three wheels and call it a bicycle and just get on with it.

[Grldtnr]

I have taken my recumbent Trike via Stena at 3 times to Netherlands , not ever a problem , perhaps because it's a Dutch service , and a bike is a bike to the Dutch, as long as it's pedal powered, and bear in mind , cargo bikes & trikes are routinely used for any sort of journey by the Dutch.
And yet I was considering the Semaine du Fed rally in Brittany this year, tried to book online, and found no bike option let alone trike, I emailed them saying I'd like to book online, ,after s 3 week wait got a non committal reply saying ring the customer services reservation service,.
Incensed I replied that wasn't the question I asked, again please explain ?
Excuse was we are reworking the website, well I just thought' Cockerels,'dammned if I am going to hang on a customer service line getting no where, and replied I will not be using their service, or recommend others to use it either.
I was waiting for them to mention the 'Covid' excuse, as when I asked about going to Santander or Bilbao, with a bike , which was no, on the basis, should a lockdown occur out in Spain ,they do not want the responsebilty or consider it responsible to travel through France to get you or for you to travel home.
And yet, if you were in a private car that's OK
I think someone with Brittany Ferries is I'll advised.
I got one, after trying to book with them ,will not travel with them again.