What Are People Doing For Bike Security?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
irc
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Re: What Are People Doing For Bike Security?

Post by irc »

Jules59 wrote: 16 Jun 2022, 10:10pm Can you get movement triggered sirens for bikes - like really loud ?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wireless-Anti- ... 306&sr=8-6
thirdcrank
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Re: What Are People Doing For Bike Security?

Post by thirdcrank »

The contribution by irc reminds me that the law on theft etc., is different in Scotland.
Jdsk
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Re: What Are People Doing For Bike Security?

Post by Jdsk »

thirdcrank wrote: 2 Jan 2023, 11:46am
PH wrote: 2 Jan 2023, 11:13am
Jdsk wrote: 2 Jan 2023, 10:56am "Suspect identified in only one in 10 bicycle theft cases in England and Wales":
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... -and-wales

Recent statistics. No surprises.
Is that all bike theft? Over half are stolen from the home.
With "theft" of pedal cycle stats, I'd need some reassurance that a commentator had at least a clue what they were talking about. At it's simplest, if somebody is caught quickly, then it's likely to be a summary offence (max fine of level three - £1K IIRC) under s 12 (5) Theft Act 1968.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/12

(I've posted about this before at some length.)
What did you conclude on that from the linked article?

Thanks

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: What Are People Doing For Bike Security?

Post by Jdsk »

PH wrote: 2 Jan 2023, 11:13am
Jdsk wrote: 2 Jan 2023, 10:56am "Suspect identified in only one in 10 bicycle theft cases in England and Wales":
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... -and-wales

Recent statistics. No surprises.
Is that all bike theft? Over half are stolen from the home.
I haven't found the primary source... yet.

Jonathan
thirdcrank
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Re: What Are People Doing For Bike Security?

Post by thirdcrank »

Jdsk wrote: 2 Jan 2023, 4:16pm
thirdcrank wrote: 2 Jan 2023, 11:46am
PH wrote: 2 Jan 2023, 11:13am
Is that all bike theft? Over half are stolen from the home.
With "theft" of pedal cycle stats, I'd need some reassurance that a commentator had at least a clue what they were talking about. At it's simplest, if somebody is caught quickly, then it's likely to be a summary offence (max fine of level three - £1K IIRC) under s 12 (5) Theft Act 1968.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/12

(I've posted about this before at some length.)
What did you conclude on that from the linked article?

Thanks

Jonathan
I took no reassurance that the author had at least a clue what they were talking about.

I'm not being facetious. Going back into the linked stuff higher up eg from CUk there's a comment along the lines that this isn't treated seriously. IMO that's a direct result of the approach taken by those who revised the Larceny Acts to produce the Theft Act 1968. They swept away several old fundamental concepts including "breaking" into buildings (replacing that with "entering as a trespasser") and "asportation" with "appropriation" but they decided that riding off on a pedal cycle was not serious offending.

I think the linked article was simply a cut-and-paste production, adding nothing to a wider understanding of the law.
Jdsk
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Re: What Are People Doing For Bike Security?

Post by Jdsk »

The linked article wasn't about "a wider understanding of the law". It was about what happens after people tell the police that their bike has been stolen.

Jonathan
thirdcrank
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Re: What Are People Doing For Bike Security?

Post by thirdcrank »

Jdsk wrote: 2 Jan 2023, 5:15pm The linked article wasn't about "a wider understanding of the law". It was about what happens after people tell the police that their bike has been stolen.

Jonathan
Yes. I got that. One point I was taking as read is that when the legislators set the punishment for an offence they are signalling their interpretation of the gravity society attaches to that conduct. Singling something out from legislation consisting largely of indictable offence as a summary offence doesn't signal serious "serious."

One thing I seem not to have made clear is that irrespective of what people tell the police, their bike may not have been stolen.

FWIW, I'm not suggesting that this is necessarily dealt with well, just that that article from the Graun didn't add to value to a discussion of the subject.
Jdsk
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Re: What Are People Doing For Bike Security?

Post by Jdsk »

"Somebody's stolen my bike."

"No, sir. I think that you'll find no theft has occurred according to the definition in the Act."

"Oh, that's alright then."

Jonathan
thirdcrank
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Re: What Are People Doing For Bike Security?

Post by thirdcrank »

Jdsk wrote: 2 Jan 2023, 5:52pm "Somebody's stolen my bike."

"No, sir. I think that you'll find no theft has occurred according to the definition in the Act."

"Oh, that's alright then."

Jonathan
That's not what I'm saying at all. I do imagine that Grauniad readers might rightly be miffed if the police were charging people with theft when the evidence only proved a lesser offence.

Looking at this from another angle, unless something has changed, a lot of bikes are recovered, in a range of circumstances. Fifty plus years ago when I was directly involved in investigating this type of offence, the complainant in pedal cycle offences was invited to visit the Town Hall to inspect the large stock of pedal cycles recently recovered in Leeds. A register was kept of those who attended and the numbers were small. Police Property Act sales were held quarterly - IIRC more frequently if they couldn't squeeze the doors of the Town Hall shut - and recovered bikes were auctioned. When I was involved with this, I knew the difference between a toeclip and a double clanger and I took everything assigned to me seriously and my comments are based on that - outdated- experience

More recently, I think the finder has been invited to keep most found property on the understanding that they are not gaining a title to the property
=======================================================================
If this works, this is a picture of part of the old ie pre 1934 Leeds Bridewell which extends to full width of the Town Hall under the steps on the Headrow side. In the era I'm talking about when it had been converted to storage, it was permanently jam-packed with recovered bikes.
Old Bridewell.jpg
mattsccm
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Re: What Are People Doing For Bike Security?

Post by mattsccm »

Be better if it was packed with convicted crooks.
Jdsk
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Re: What Are People Doing For Bike Security?

Post by Jdsk »

Follow-up article:

"How can Britain ever embrace cycling if our bikes keep getting stolen?":
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... heft-crime

But it hasn't helped in finding the original data on which this is all based.

Jonathan
axel_knutt
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Re: What Are People Doing For Bike Security?

Post by axel_knutt »

thirdcrank wrote: 2 Jan 2023, 6:18pmLeeds Bridewell
My father's best friend's wife used to work there at one time, the nurse IIRC. A lovely woman with a heart of gold, but my father said she had quite a reputation for taking no nonsense from the customers.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
thirdcrank
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Re: What Are People Doing For Bike Security?

Post by thirdcrank »

Jdsk wrote: 8 Jan 2023, 11:25am Follow-up article:

"How can Britain ever embrace cycling if our bikes keep getting stolen?":
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... heft-crime

But it hasn't helped in finding the original data on which this is all based.

Jonathan
At the risk of provoking more scorn, I'll suggest that this latest article is not data-based. IMO it's anecdotal, without even following a consistent theme
Jdsk
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Re: What Are People Doing For Bike Security?

Post by Jdsk »

thirdcrank wrote: 8 Jan 2023, 12:54pm
Jdsk wrote: 8 Jan 2023, 11:25am Follow-up article:

"How can Britain ever embrace cycling if our bikes keep getting stolen?":
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... heft-crime

But it hasn't helped in finding the original data on which this is all based.
At the risk of provoking more scorn, I'll suggest that this latest article is not data-based. IMO it's anecdotal, without even following a consistent theme
There's a report somewhere from the Liberal Democrats.

Jonathan
thirdcrank
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Re: What Are People Doing For Bike Security?

Post by thirdcrank »

Jdsk wrote: 8 Jan 2023, 12:56pm
thirdcrank wrote: 8 Jan 2023, 12:54pm
Jdsk wrote: 8 Jan 2023, 11:25am Follow-up article:

"How can Britain ever embrace cycling if our bikes keep getting stolen?":
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... heft-crime

But it hasn't helped in finding the original data on which this is all based.
At the risk of provoking more scorn, I'll suggest that this latest article is not data-based. IMO it's anecdotal, without even following a consistent theme
There's a report somewhere from the Liberal Democrats.

Jonathan
I think I've followed all the links within the linked articles and I've found nothing linking directly to anything from the LibDems making any sort of analysis of bike theft. The link in the latest article seems only to take me back to the first. I suspect that subeditors may not be so robust in checking out these things as was once the case.
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