Interesting article on money

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briansnail
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Re: Interesting article on money

Post by briansnail »

I am very wary of Andrew Medhurst's credentials.Nowhere does he mention he rides a bicycle.Highly suspicious.
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PedallingSquares
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Re: Interesting article on money

Post by PedallingSquares »

Nearholmer wrote: 16 Jun 2022, 12:32pm
Yes you can exist on surprisingly little but why would you
Because consuming far more than is needed isn’t sustainable.
Define consuming more than is needed?That will vary from person to person.I don't comsume more than is needed,I consume what I need to live the life I want to live.It is sustainable until I can no longer afford it or die.I suspect the latter will come first :lol:
Long term?Don't think about what happens once I've departed this mortal coil as I will be dead so it won't matter :wink:
You are a long time dead.

One....Life....Live......It :mrgreen:
Nearholmer
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Re: Interesting article on money

Post by Nearholmer »

Future generations.

If you have no children of your own, then other people’s children.
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al_yrpal
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Re: Interesting article on money

Post by al_yrpal »

We buy rubbish all the time...other peoples rubbish. Our favourite shops are the tip's recycling shop, car boots and auctions. As well as picking up many really nice items for next to nothing its green. Almost nothing in our house is new.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
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PedallingSquares
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Re: Interesting article on money

Post by PedallingSquares »

Nearholmer wrote: 16 Jun 2022, 10:01pm Future generations.
If you have no children of your own, then other people’s children.
I have 4 children.Well 3 of them are adults now and one is 15.I stated in another thread that they will adapt to whatever comes along after I'm gone.It is not my concern what happens then.As I keep saying you have one life and you're a long time dead.
Maybe there'd be more happiness in the world if folk lived their lives for themselves now rather than worrying what will happen in 10/20/50 years times :wink:
If it makes you happy scrimping and existing with very little then good on yer but don't try to force others into your life choices.I am very happy living as I am thank you very much :D
Nearholmer
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Re: Interesting article on money

Post by Nearholmer »

I think we may be talking at cross-purposes here: it’s not money that I’m banging on about, but sustainability, or rather the lack of it.

I’ll readily admit to being fairly rubbish at conducting life in a way that fosters sustainability myself, but by golly is it an issue that concerns me when it comes to the next generation and those beyond.

And, I’m genuinely interested in why I get exercised about it, along with a fair few others, and why you, and very many others, don’t.

So, genuine, not trick or trap, question: why does the question of sustainability not factor into your thinking about consumption choices?

(Which I’ll admit is a question based on an assumption derived from what you’ve said so far).
briansnail
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Re: Interesting article on money

Post by briansnail »

The biggest item of expenditure is not food or transport.It is housing.I notice a lot of people in the T shop are retired.Disposable income will depend a lot on whether one rents or has paid of (most of the mortgage).

Our living room is bare (apart from 4 cycles).Simply the (old Japanese way of minimal clutter free) leads to peace of mind.No cars but the rest of the rooms is quality furniture rather than mass produced sourced from charity shops.So there!.
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Stradageek
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Re: Interesting article on money

Post by Stradageek »

Post Capitalism - A Guide to out Future, by Paul Mason tries to tackle these questions and makes considerable progress methinks.

My favourite 'example' is the case of iTunes/downloads that are selling stuff that is essentially free (and was before Napster was litigated to death). To quote:

"Technologically we are headed towards zero priced goods, unmeasureable work, an exponential takeoff in productivity and the extensive automation of physical processes. Socially we are trapped in a world of monopolies, inefficiency, the ruins of a finance dominated free market and the proliferation of 'bullshit' jobs.

Today, the main contradiction in modern capitalism is between the possibility of free, abundant, socially produced goods and the system of monopolies, banks and governments struggling to maintain control over power and information. That is, everything is pervaded by a fight between Network and Hierarchy."

He does admit that defeating the rich, 1%, power hierarchy is a bit of a challenge - now what was it that Kropotkin, Bakunin and Malatesta suggested?
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Re: Interesting article on money

Post by Vorpal »

Andrew Medhurst has not learned to reflect on his privilege.

Very, very few people can just quit their jobs and go volunteer for XR. Most have other people, children, partner, parents, etc. relying on them and their income. Fewer still have the money and savings to do so.

Furthermore, while he points out some important things about our economic system, he doesn't really offer any solutions to those of us who can't just quit our jobs.
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reohn2
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Re: Interesting article on money

Post by reohn2 »

I couldn't agree more,the article does illustrates how disconnected the cushion of the rich allows them to become disconnected from ordinary.
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reohn2
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Re: Interesting article on money

Post by reohn2 »

Tiberius wrote: 16 Jun 2022, 1:26pm
PedallingSquares wrote: 16 Jun 2022, 10:06am
Tiberius wrote: 15 Jun 2022, 12:46pm I look around and wonder, why so many people work themselves stupid and then spend their hard earned on so much rubbish?
Yes you can exist on surprisingly little but why would you :roll:

I'm from Yorkshire.... :wink:
Is it true that Yorkshiremen don't wear elasticated underwear because it 'gives' ? :wink:
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PedallingSquares
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Re: Interesting article on money

Post by PedallingSquares »

Nearholmer wrote: 17 Jun 2022, 2:12pm So, genuine, not trick or trap, question: why does the question of sustainability not factor into your thinking about consumption choices?
(Which I’ll admit is a question based on an assumption derived from what you’ve said so far).
I don't care about sustainability.I/we consume whatever we consume.I give it little or no thought it just[s what it is.I don't care if we can sustain it for the rest of my/our lives and care not one bit what happens after that.
I live for today as today could be my last today.I really don't care or understand why people worry about what happens after they have gone :roll:
I honestly think many people just say what they think they should say or what other people want to hear.
I don't.I say what I want to say as it's what I believe.I don't care what other people think I should do or say.What they do is up to them.I don't preach to anyone and expect the same in return.
The planet can explode and disappear anytime it wants as far as I'm concerned.I just don't care!
Last edited by PedallingSquares on 6 Jul 2022, 8:43am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cugel
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Re: Interesting article on money

Post by Cugel »

PedallingSquares wrote: 5 Jul 2022, 11:31pm
Nearholmer wrote: 17 Jun 2022, 2:12pm So, genuine, not trick or trap, question: why does the question of sustainability not factor into your thinking about consumption choices?
(Which I’ll admit is a question based on an assumption derived from what you’ve said so far).
I don't care about sustainability.I/we consume whatever we consume.I give it little or no thought it just us what it is.I don't care if we can sustain it for the rest of my/our lives and care not one bit what happens after that.
I live for today as today could be my last today.I really don't care or understand why people worry about what happens after they have gone :roll:
I honestly think many people just say what they think they should say or what other people want to hear.
I don't.I say what I want to say as it's what I believe.I don't care what other people think I should do or say.What they do is up to them.I don't preach to anyone and expect the same in return.
The planet can explode and disappear anytime it wants as far as I'm concerned.I just don't care!
A perfek statement of our base human nature! On the other hand, it's only within a civilisation of folk who do care about various things, including the unavoidable accommodations needed to live successfully with others, that allow the more selfish of our numbers to do only what they want to do at every opportunity.

Let one simple example suffice. How would it be if every other human eschewed any sense of responsibility or regard for the local social arrangements and decided to take all your goods and chattels, dealing with your complaints in an uncompromising fashion should you attempt to prevent the transfer from your ownership to theirs? I suspect that you might cry for the full weight of the law, with all of it's long-wrought institutions and their various officers to come to sustain the status quo of your ownership.

But perhaps not. Perhaps you would prefer a non-society, where "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law", in a Hobbesian state of nature in which there's a war-of-all-against-all? Some lads do imagine themselves as the successful marauding Viking in such situations, rather than one of the thousands murdered by such a fellow for their stuff.

But I digress.

What do others in your immediate social orbit think of your beliefs in these matters? I'd be fascinated to know whether they approve or disapprove.

Are there particular circumstances where you put aside your extreme libertarianism in favour of a co-operative mode in order to achieve objectives not possible by your individual efforts alone? If so, what do you give up in return for such co-operation? There must be something! For example, do you tend to obey the traffic laws or do you ride your bike on the right hand side of the road when the mood takes you?

Cugel, amateur anthropologist Grade D9.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
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PedallingSquares
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Re: Interesting article on money

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Cugel wrote: 6 Jul 2022, 8:38am What do others in your immediate social orbit think of your beliefs in these matters? I'd be fascinated to know whether they approve or disapprove.
I really don't care.
My daughter is a vegan tree-hugger.She knows not to bother trying to convert me to her views and she knows I won't do the same.Apart from that pretty much everyone I know has a similar attitude.As I've said I think people on here say what they think they should,and that's not exclusive to environmental rubbish,rather than what they actually think.
This subject rarely crops up on other forums I frequent and when it does the thread will often get preachy.
Instead of trying to find out why just leave it at I don't care :wink:
mattheus
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Re: Interesting article on money

Post by mattheus »

PedallingSquares wrote: 6 Jul 2022, 8:51am I really don't care.
My daughter is a vegan tree-hugger.
She sounds a nice person: well done on doing something positive with your life.
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