What's slowing me down?

[RobbieBlease]

So I have a couple of surly touring bikes, a long haul trucker and an ECR. I'm planning on taking the ECR on a big tour at the end of this year. I had it custom made at a local shop just over a year ago and the basic run down is this:

-Rohloff
-29er 2.15 schwalbe almotion tyres
-15ish kg
-son dynamo hub
-jones bars

The long haul trucker is a frame we chucked some parts on from my Dad's ancient dawes galaxy.

-3x upfront, 7 speed cassette on the back
-700c x 37mm tyre
-13kg
-drops

Compared to the long haul trucker the ecr just feels more sluggish, slows down faster, is harder to accelerate to and maintain higher speeds. Is there anything that stands out from this (admittedly very limited spec) that might be contributing to that feeling? Or any other considerations?

Thanks in advance

[PH]

Feels slower or rides slower?
I have an Ogre with Rohloff and Almotion tyres (2" I think but haven't looked) it's a tank, point it somewhere and that's where it goes, just not speedily. When I've recorded the ride I'm frequently surprised that it's not as slow as it felt.
Rohloff's I love em! I have three and between them they've been in seven bikes. But compared to a perfectly set up derailleur bike they do drag, not a huge amount and by the time you're trundling along on tour, it might be too little to notice. If I had to guess by how much I'd say less than 1kph off the average. It's also possible that they might take a bit of getting used to, I suspect that what I lose to drag I gain back from the ability to always be in the right gear.
The wider tyres will slow you, it's a trade off. Likewise the extra couple of kg, though not by much. Jones bars to drops - is the riding position the same? If not do you want it to be? If you're less aerodynamic you'll be slower whatever the bike.
Then there's the phycology, if something feels fast it is. If you feel rewarded for the extra effort, you're more inclined to put it in. I used to have a fast Audax bike and the data to prove it, then I got a HR monitor and the data from that showed I was working harder.

[Tigerbiten]

The first suspect if a bike feels dead is always the tyres.
Try swopping the tyres between the bike as see if that makes any difference with how they feel.

After that it get a lot more tricky as it tends to come down to something else like frame angles/frame stiffness/??

Luck ..........

[RobbieBlease]

Thanks. I'm kind of hoping it's the tyres since their the easiest thing to replace. Wish I could swap them but the rims are 30mm wide so 2.15 is about as small as I can go. Do you think the difference between the tyres is significant enough?

I guess maybe rohloffs bed in a bit with time and get smoother as well.

Rolling down a local road I definitely get further on the trucker so I think there is something other than just feel.

[mattsccm]

I would suggest practically everything you suggest.
All things being equal each of them will slow a bike down a touch. Chuck them togther and there has to be a difference. Some may say that other things, comfort maybe for one, can counter this but weight and drag plus aerodynamics all play a part. Some nice narrow tyres would be an easy start but don't pick hosepipe jobs. I run 25mm tyres on 20mm inner width rims. Absolutley fine over several thousand miles. I would consider 35mm worth a thought on 30mm rims.

[gbnz]

As above, I'd look at the tyres. If you've got 55mm on the slow bike and only 37mm on the faster one, it does stand out as a cause.

As a former roadie (20-23mm), I used to run the town bike on wide, 28mm. Only went to 30mm for a full year touring in 2008. And then to 32mm. But finally went to a 36mm tyre on the rear wheel last autumn. Seemed sensible, Same make/type of tyre, but the whole bike is cumbersome now, cornering at speed much worse, heading down hill at 36.6mph today, the bike wobbling around due to flexibility in the wider tyre walls. Initially thought the tube must simply be too narrow, changed it, no improvement.

Don't often waste money, but chucking a tyre with 6 months wear, may be necessary

[PH]

Another thought, is the chain fairly slack? It ought to be, not sure if too tight would cause drag, but it won't do it any good.

I guess maybe rohloffs bed in a bit with time and get smoother as well.

They do, but it isn't a huge difference, more noticeable is that they quieten down.
Are the people who built it Rohloff specialists? It could do with a proper comparison to determine if that's the way it is, or if there's something wrong. I've read about occasional teething problems with new hubs, seals not right or the shims needing adjustment, I have no experience of these things but they do happen. When freewheeling, 11th shouldn't be much different from any other hub, it's direct drive so there can't be much engaged.
Almotion tyres roll pretty well for their size, I doubt you'd want to run anything much narrower on that frame.
If you're that way savvy. you could post a vid of the wheel spinning in 11th and some might comment if theirs were the same.
I don't know what else to suggest, if you're anywhere near Derby you're welcome to a ride on my Ogre, see how they compare (If you fit a XL frame)

[mattsccm]

Last week I swapped out my dynamo hub for an otherwise identical wheel/tyre set up. By goodness you could feel the difference and as dynamos go I reckon that this one is a free runner.

[rogerzilla]

My mate has just bought a tourer with straight bars, Rohloff and big tyres. Now I have to wait for him at the top of hills, instead of the other way around

[Gearoidmuar]

Tyres. Stiff tyres slow you down a good bit. Tyres with a very flexible carcass are faster.

[brumster]

Have you checked your disc pads aren't rubbing on the rotors? Different riding positions may also be a factor.

[Jdsk]

Have you checked your disc pads aren't rubbing on the rotors? Different riding positions may also be a factor.

Yes x2.

Is everything moving freely when it's up on the stand?

And aerodynamic drag dominates at "higher speeds"... unless there's a fault...

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

Last week I swapped out my dynamo hub for an otherwise identical wheel/tyre set up. By goodness you could feel the difference and as dynamos go I reckon that this one is a free runner.

Was that feeling the difference when spinning the wheel by hand on a stand, or when on the road?

Modern hub dynamos consume about as much power as ascending a 1 in 1000 gradient.

Thanks

Jonathan

[Tiberius]

My Rohloff bike is definitely slower and 'sludgier' than my derailleur bike - both have titanium frames, SON 28 dynohubs and similar tyres.

However. If I had to choose just one bike it would be the Rohloff.

[Jdsk]

My Rohloff bike is definitely slower and 'sludgier' than my derailleur bike - both have titanium frames, SON 28 dynohubs and similar tyres.

Can you detect the difference with it up on the stand and turning the drivetrain by hand?

Thanks

Jonathan