Driver fined £1,100 for passing Bridgend cyclist too closely

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Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Driver fined £1,100 for passing Bridgend cyclist too closely

Post by Psamathe »

Vorpal wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 12:50pm For folks who do not have a medical condition that prevents them from doing so, I would like to see cycling included in driver lessons, or Bikeability Level 3 as a requirement.

But at the very least, driver awareness courses and extended tests after a ban should include Bikeability Level 2 + some hours cycling, or Bikeability level 3.
I've wondered about this and I really don't know because in the UK cycle training with our Health & Safety mean the training will be on quiet safe roads with minimal traffic, "Cycle Training" warning signs, etc. and some drivers under instruction might come away with the "what's all the fuss about, I did the training and never felt vulnerable or threatened ...".

Ian
ChrisP100
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Joined: 24 Sep 2020, 9:00am

Re: Driver fined £1,100 for passing Bridgend cyclist too closely

Post by ChrisP100 »

Psamathe wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 12:57pm
Vorpal wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 12:50pm For folks who do not have a medical condition that prevents them from doing so, I would like to see cycling included in driver lessons, or Bikeability Level 3 as a requirement.

But at the very least, driver awareness courses and extended tests after a ban should include Bikeability Level 2 + some hours cycling, or Bikeability level 3.
I've wondered about this and I really don't know because in the UK cycle training with our Health & Safety mean the training will be on quiet safe roads with minimal traffic, "Cycle Training" warning signs, etc. and some drivers under instruction might come away with the "what's all the fuss about, I did the training and never felt vulnerable or threatened ...".

Ian
This^

I don't think you'll get anywhere near the conditions most of us a subject to on a daily basis by doing a Bikeability course and a few hours of cycling in a relatively sterile environment.

I honestly think a decent immersive VR setup would be a real eyeopener for most drivers.
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Driver fined £1,100 for passing Bridgend cyclist too closely

Post by thirdcrank »

I've suggested the cycling experience-as-part-of-the-driving test several times on here over the years, having first suggested it on a radio leeds phone-in twenty five years ago in response to a caller urging driving tests etc for cyclists. It shut him up and the Radio Leeds presenter had to turn off her mike to avoid her laughter being transmitted.

A couple of recent posts here

viewtopic.php?p=1674051#p1674051

viewtopic.php?p=1101512#p1101512

The first of those was as recently as February this year. Perhaps the laugh is onme
Vorpal
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Re: Driver fined £1,100 for passing Bridgend cyclist too closely

Post by Vorpal »

Level 3 Bikeability requires advanced concepts, including filtering in traffic, hazard perception, etc.

https://www.bournemouth.gov.uk/travelan ... aining.pdf
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Driver fined £1,100 for passing Bridgend cyclist too closely

Post by thirdcrank »

Jdsk wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 12:19pm
ChrisP100 wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 12:16pm Maybe we need to ditch the driver awareness course in favour of positioning offending drivers in the road, standing on a wobble board 1.5m from the edge of a carriageway with their backs to the oncoming traffic and subject them to a series of 1m close passes at increasing speed?

I'm clearly joking, as there is no way that would be allowed due to Health & Safety concerns, which is ironic...
I'd expect education that uses some form of visualisation to reach places that words and numbers can't. Empathy ditto.

The mats were an example of that, but IIRC there was some piling-in when I mentioned them here some time ago.

What's the current state of the art?

Thanks

Jonathan
Re the bit I've highlighted.

I've been rather matsceptic so that may have been me.

My brief summary of the history of the mats would be

A West Midlands Police traffic unit whose members included some cyclists devised their own mats which they used in conjunction with active enforcement
There was no proper assessment of the effectiveness of the initiative (just the typical police log of results)
This was thought by the CTC/Cuk leadership to be a GOOD THING.
When asked, the officers involved suggested the cost of the mats was the obstacle to a national scheme
A crowdfunding initiative was launched and the necessary £££ to provide every police force in the land with a mat was raised PDQ
The mats were distributed with "mixed results."
In a thematic inspection of traffic policing, "Operation Close Pass" was noted as a GOOD THING without explanation or links
(If really necessary, I can dig out the relevant stuff in the forum)

Overall, proactive traffic policing is on its last legs. Policing by media release is no substitute but the defendant in this case has unwittingly helped to get the message out
millimole
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007, 5:41pm
Location: Leicester

Re: Driver fined £1,100 for passing Bridgend cyclist too closely

Post by millimole »

My proposal for the driving test would not be restricted to an additional cycling component but to allow a choice of one of : cycling, horse riding, motorcycling, lorry driving or bus driving (and maybe others) each being suitably rigorously tested before a full car licence is issued.
My logic is that all types of drivers need to appreciate the other user's point of view and not be myopic when behind a car wheel.

This is a cycling forum so we home in on the cycling aspect, but there are probably other, wider, issues at stake.
Leicester; Riding my Hetchins since 1971; Day rides on my Dawes; Going to the shops on a Decathlon Hoprider
JohnW
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Re: Driver fined £1,100 for passing Bridgend cyclist too closely

Post by JohnW »

Vorpal wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 12:50pm For folks who do not have a medical condition that prevents them from doing so, I would like to see cycling included in driver lessons, or Bikeability Level 3 as a requirement.

But at the very least, driver awareness courses and extended tests after a ban should include Bikeability Level 2 + some hours cycling, or Bikeability level 3.
+1 to that.
pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Driver fined £1,100 for passing Bridgend cyclist too closely

Post by pete75 »

Bloody ridiculous. As long as they miss I don't care how close they pass.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
JohnW
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Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Driver fined £1,100 for passing Bridgend cyclist too closely

Post by JohnW »

pete75 wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 7:35pm Bloody ridiculous. As long as they miss I don't care how close they pass.
Er pete - it's not ridiculous - sorry to contradict.
Please don't join the enemy.
Respect for human life is not ridiculous.
How close have you been passed?
De Sisti
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Joined: 17 Jun 2007, 6:03pm

Re: Driver fined £1,100 for passing Bridgend cyclist too closely

Post by De Sisti »

millimole wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 6:14pm My proposal for the driving test would not be restricted to an additional cycling component but to allow a choice of one of : cycling, horse riding, motorcycling, lorry driving or bus driving (and maybe others) each being suitably rigorously tested before a full car licence is issued.
My logic is that all types of drivers need to appreciate the other user's point of view and not be myopic when behind a car wheel.

This is a cycling forum so we home in on the cycling aspect, but there are probably other, wider, issues at stake.
Gets complicated due to testing centre needing a horse and some hay :) , and driver needing a hgv or psv (whatever it's called) licence. Happy to be corrected.

[Edit: Our group endured some close passes on the way back from Chipping Norton to Cheltenham.

In two cases, the overtaking drivers, so impatient to make their move, almost came to a halt,
as they encountered vehicles coming from the opposite direction (beeping their horns).]
pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Driver fined £1,100 for passing Bridgend cyclist too closely

Post by pete75 »

JohnW wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 7:40pm
pete75 wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 7:35pm Bloody ridiculous. As long as they miss I don't care how close they pass.
Er pete - it's not ridiculous - sorry to contradict.
Please don't join the enemy.
Respect for human life is not ridiculous.
How close have you been passed?
About 6 inches yesterday evening. A bit scary when it's someone doing 60 but harmless if they don't hit you. Oh and it's verging on paranoia to regard motor vehicle drivers as the enemy.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Vorpal
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Re: Driver fined £1,100 for passing Bridgend cyclist too closely

Post by Vorpal »

pete75 wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 7:35pm Bloody ridiculous. As long as they miss I don't care how close they pass.
Even if it puts people off cycling?

or they practically shave you at 70 mph?
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
JohnW
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Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Driver fined £1,100 for passing Bridgend cyclist too closely

Post by JohnW »

pete75 wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 8:30pm
JohnW wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 7:40pm
pete75 wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 7:35pm Bloody ridiculous. As long as they miss I don't care how close they pass.
Er pete - it's not ridiculous - sorry to contradict.
Please don't join the enemy.
Respect for human life is not ridiculous.
How close have you been passed?
About 6 inches yesterday evening. A bit scary when it's someone doing 60 but harmless if they don't hit you. Oh and it's verging on paranoia to regard motor vehicle drivers as the enemy.
What title do you give to someone who does that to you?
I think we're in danger of quarrelling here, and being more concerned to win an argument than to recognise a real danger and a very worrying trend,
cycle tramp
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Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Driver fined £1,100 for passing Bridgend cyclist too closely

Post by cycle tramp »

pete75 wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 7:35pm Bloody ridiculous. As long as they miss I don't care how close they pass.
....But that's the issue... with the best of intentions cars pass you at 2 metres, then some will pass you at 1.5 metres then they think that's okay, and they'll pass you at 1 metre... and they get away with it, so they'll try at .5 metres and then BANG!!!...

..I don't view cars as the enemy, but it would foolish not to regard them as both a danger and a threat :-)
Motorhead: god was never on your sidehttps://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=m ... +your+side
cycle tramp
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Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Driver fined £1,100 for passing Bridgend cyclist too closely

Post by cycle tramp »

pete75 wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 7:35pm Bloody ridiculous. As long as they miss I don't care how close they pass.
And whilst your comments are duely noted, safe passing distances have now been enshrined in the highway code and as such whilst you personally may not care how close other traffic may pass you, the Police have now been given the task of 'caring', by which I mean enforcement :-)
Motorhead: god was never on your sidehttps://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=m ... +your+side
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