Driver fined £1,100 for passing Bridgend cyclist too closely

[Beaker]

There has been a number of near passes in the news recently resulting in sizeable fines.

I hope this does get the message out and educates drivers. I'm not very confident though. As this chap proves even with clear evidence of a pass that breaks the law he still can't admit fault.

[Psamathe]

....
its just my opinion, I dont believe motorists like Mr Humphreys set out intentionally to endanger cyclists by the way they drive, in their mind they are simply overtaking us exactly as they would another car, bus, lorry etc, thats why he has been struggling to accept the decision against him because he genuinely believes he did nothing wrong, in his mind he left enough room so as not to hit the cyclist and that was enough so it was a "safe" pass in his mind, thats why I dont think any of the measured distance stuff comes into it, and if you delve into the comment pieces in newspapers who have covered this, you see many of the same sentiments being echoed, so yeah I think its an attitude shared by a lot of drivers on the road.

You said "like most motorists their view is a pass that doesn't hit you on the bike is totally fine, because that's how they overtake over vehicles all the time"

I think that's greatly exaggerated - most motorists don't believe that - indeed the clip showed most motorists passing wide and safe. It was only the defendant who struggled with the concept. Absolutely there are motorists who endanger vulnerable road users such as ourselves, but a large majority don't IMHO.

in a general context and my experience, when a car passing from behind pulls-out to pass they invariably move into the next (normally oncoming) lane so cannot pass with oncoming traffic - pulling out means a clear oncoming lane for either a close pass or a safe wide clearance pass. So close passes are unnecessary as the driver needs the oncoming lane empty anyway.

In the video there are no oncoming vehicles so absolutely no reason why the driver didn't pull out properly beyond bad driving (like the other drivers did).

My personal experience is that there are very very few times when it is possible for a car to squeeze past when the next (oncoming) lane has traffic. Normally, at least for roads round me, lanes are not wide enough for car and cycle together to driver needs the other lane.

Ian

[thirdcrank]

....
its just my opinion, I dont believe motorists like Mr Humphreys set out intentionally to endanger cyclists by the way they drive, in their mind they are simply overtaking us exactly as they would another car, bus, lorry etc, thats why he has been struggling to accept the decision against him because he genuinely believes he did nothing wrong, in his mind he left enough room so as not to hit the cyclist and that was enough so it was a "safe" pass in his mind, thats why I dont think any of the measured distance stuff comes into it, and if you delve into the comment pieces in newspapers who have covered this, you see many of the same sentiments being echoed, so yeah I think its an attitude shared by a lot of drivers on the road.

You said "like most motorists their view is a pass that doesn't hit you on the bike is totally fine, because that's how they overtake over vehicles all the time"

I think that's greatly exaggerated - most motorists don't believe that - indeed the clip showed most motorists passing wide and safe. It was only the defendant who struggled with the concept. Absolutely there are motorists who endanger vulnerable road users such as ourselves, but a large majority don't IMHO.

in a general context and my experience, when a car passing from behind pulls-out to pass they invariably move into the next (normally oncoming) lane so cannot pass with oncoming traffic - pulling out means a clear oncoming lane for either a close pass or a safe wide clearance pass. So close passes are unnecessary as the driver needs the oncoming lane empty anyway.

In the video there are no oncoming vehicles so absolutely no reason why the driver didn't pull out properly beyond bad driving (like the other drivers did).

My personal experience is that there are very very few times when it is possible for a car to squeeze past when the next (oncoming) lane has traffic. Normally, at least for roads round me, lanes are not wide enough for car and cycle together to driver needs the other lane.

Ian

Are you basing the comment I've highlighted on deduction? ie other overtaking drivers gave much more room. I've not seen any actual footage of the road ahead of the rider who was overtaken

[Jdsk]

...
In the video there are no oncoming vehicles so absolutely no reason why the driver didn't pull out properly beyond bad driving (like the other drivers did).
...

Are you basing the comment I've highlighted on deduction? ie other overtaking drivers gave much more room. I've not seen any actual footage of the road ahead of the rider who was overtaken

Another vehicle pulls out and passes immediately after the vehicle driven by the offender. After that two vehicles come in the opposite direction.



Jonathan

[Psamathe]

You said "like most motorists their view is a pass that doesn't hit you on the bike is totally fine, because that's how they overtake over vehicles all the time"

I think that's greatly exaggerated - most motorists don't believe that - indeed the clip showed most motorists passing wide and safe. It was only the defendant who struggled with the concept. Absolutely there are motorists who endanger vulnerable road users such as ourselves, but a large majority don't IMHO.

in a general context and my experience, when a car passing from behind pulls-out to pass they invariably move into the next (normally oncoming) lane so cannot pass with oncoming traffic - pulling out means a clear oncoming lane for either a close pass or a safe wide clearance pass. So close passes are unnecessary as the driver needs the oncoming lane empty anyway.

In the video there are no oncoming vehicles so absolutely no reason why the driver didn't pull out properly beyond bad driving (like the other drivers did).

My personal experience is that there are very very few times when it is possible for a car to squeeze past when the next (oncoming) lane has traffic. Normally, at least for roads round me, lanes are not wide enough for car and cycle together to driver needs the other lane.

Ian

Are you basing the comment I've highlighted on deduction? ie other overtaking drivers gave much more room. I've not seen any actual footage of the road ahead of the rider who was overtaken

Basing my thought as you see no traffic coming in the opposite direction and the car following looks like it pulled out a better distance (which it could not have done if there was oncoming traffic). Plus the close pass vehicle moved out enough to obstruct the oncoming lane anyway and if obstructed he might have well pulled out as it would still have been obstructed.

But I'm no expert at traffic video analysis.

Ian

[thirdcrank]

Thanks On reflection my question might have been more simply put as "Have you seen a vid of the road ahead?" A bit more can be deduced from the rear-view vid eg as the camera moves forward on the bike we see nothing such as a parked vehicle or a juntion from which traffic might emerge.

[Psamathe]

Thanks On reflection my question might have been more simply put as "Have you seen a vid of the road ahead?" A bit more can be deduced from the rear-view vid eg as the camera moves forward on the bike we see nothing such as a parked vehicle or a juntion from which traffic might emerge.

I suppose the my main point was that my own experience is that close passes are sometimes when motor vehicle overtakes on blind bend to find an oncoming car so the immediately pull-in (cyclist inside them forgotten when facing an oncoming vehicle), but more often on two-way roads and passing vehicle has to obstruct the oncoming lane anyway so there is no space reason why they don't pull out a decent distance - their taking half the oncoming lane or all the oncoming lane makes no difference beyond taking all the oncoming lane means a safe pass for the cyclist.

Ian

[RickH]

I saw a tweet from Nick Freeman ("Mr Loophole"). Even he says "The driver was, in my view, too close re new Highway Code. Ill advised not to accept the course offered. Drivers should be aware that due care carries an unlimited fine plus 3 – 9 penalty points and discretionary ban." (https://twitter.com/TheMrLoophole/statu ... 9180139520)

[Nearholmer]

I suppose the my main point was that my own experience is that close passes are sometimes when motor vehicle overtakes on blind bend to find an oncoming car so the immediately pull-in (cyclist inside them forgotten when facing an oncoming vehicle),

Yep, that’s exactly how I was nearly shoved into a verge lined with very solid looking trees recently.

I’ve also been close-passed at speed on a very narrow lane by a car coming in the opposite direction driving down the middle of the lane (natural place to be on such a narrow lane). The weird thing about that was that the lane was dead straight, with perfect visibility, that I had flashing light on, and was dressed like a fluorescent tangerine. I have no idea whether the woman driving the car didn’t see me despite all that, or decided to shove me off the road, which fortunately had a flat, clear verge that I could get onto.

[Bonefishblues]

I saw a tweet from Nick Freeman ("Mr Loophole"). Even he says "The driver was, in my view, too close re new Highway Code. Ill advised not to accept the course offered. Drivers should be aware that due care carries an unlimited fine plus 3 – 9 penalty points and discretionary ban." (https://twitter.com/TheMrLoophole/statu ... 9180139520)

I read that as him stating how unjust it is and how he can get the driver off the charge, indeed a commendation for his excellent driving

[cycle tramp]

I saw a tweet from Nick Freeman ("Mr Loophole"). Even he says "The driver was, in my view, too close re new Highway Code. Ill advised not to accept the course offered. Drivers should be aware that due care carries an unlimited fine plus 3 – 9 penalty points and discretionary ban." (https://twitter.com/TheMrLoophole/statu ... 9180139520)

I read that as him stating how unjust it is and how he can get the driver off the charge, indeed a commendation for his excellent driving

Which shows the level of intelligence that Mr Loophole operates...
..if you're caught doing something, accept it, take your lumps, go to whatever course they are offering , make the payment of the fine as soon as you can, try and learn from it* and move on with your life....

(*yeah we all make errors of judgement, mostly because we react out of habit, than applied thought.... so I treat any comment about my behaviour as a request to think more carefully in future about the situation:-) )

[ChrisP100]

Maybe we need to ditch the driver awareness course in favour of positioning offending drivers in the road, standing on a wobble board 1.5m from the edge of a carriageway with their backs to the oncoming traffic and subject them to a series of 1m close passes at increasing speed?

I'm clearly joking, as there is no way that would be allowed due to Health & Safety concerns, which is ironic...

[Jdsk]

Maybe we need to ditch the driver awareness course in favour of positioning offending drivers in the road, standing on a wobble board 1.5m from the edge of a carriageway with their backs to the oncoming traffic and subject them to a series of 1m close passes at increasing speed?

I'm clearly joking, as there is no way that would be allowed due to Health & Safety concerns, which is ironic...

I'd expect education that uses some form of visualisation to reach places that words and numbers can't. Empathy ditto.

The mats were an example of that, but IIRC there was some piling-in when I mentioned them here some time ago.

What's the current state of the art?

Thanks

Jonathan

[ChrisP100]

Maybe we need to ditch the driver awareness course in favour of positioning offending drivers in the road, standing on a wobble board 1.5m from the edge of a carriageway with their backs to the oncoming traffic and subject them to a series of 1m close passes at increasing speed?

I'm clearly joking, as there is no way that would be allowed due to Health & Safety concerns, which is ironic...

I'd expect education that uses some form of visualisation to reach places that words and numbers can't. Empathy ditto.

The mats were an example of that, but IIRC there was some piling-in when I mentioned them here some time ago.

What's the current state of the art?

Thanks

Jonathan

At a guess I would suspect some form of graphical computer simulation, or taking it a step further a wind tunnel that recreates the forces imparted on a cyclist as a vehicle passes at speed which can be measured and displayed graphically? Maybe that could be incorporated into a VR simulation where the individual is sat on some kind of balance bike and given a typical road surface to negotiate?

It's certainly an interesting subject to investigate.

[Vorpal]

For folks who do not have a medical condition that prevents them from doing so, I would like to see cycling included in driver lessons, or Bikeability Level 3 as a requirement.

But at the very least, driver awareness courses and extended tests after a ban should include Bikeability Level 2 + some hours cycling, or Bikeability level 3.