Cycling UK Forum Moderator offer

Anything about use of this forum : NOT about cycling
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horizon
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Cycling UK Forum Moderator offer

Post by horizon »

It's good to see this being put out there in a formal way. It recognises that it is an important aspect of running a forum. Five posts are available which I think is a good minimum. It also links the forum more specifically to Cycling UK which IMV is also a good thing.

My own request is that the new moderator(s) should have a username/identity specific to their role as moderator. This of course would still be anonymous but different from their ordinary persona on the forum. Both can be linked and known (no problem there) but it must be made 100% clear when a moderator is speaking in a personal or moderator capacity.

Apart from that I wish Cycling UK good luck in finding suitable persons and my grateful thanks to those who take on the role.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Cycling UK Forum Moderator offer

Post by thirdcrank »

I see that membership of Cuk is no longer a specific qualification - perhaps it's implied.

Here's something I wrote long ago.

viewtopic.php?p=29439#p29439
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mjr
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Re: Cycling UK Forum Moderator offer

Post by mjr »

Is it so obvious to existing members that the rules and tools or procedures are currently inadequate
(ableism and several other isms allowed, no single -forum bans, to name two) that they have to try to press gang outsiders unfamiliar with them?
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Jdsk
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Re: Cycling UK Forum Moderator offer

Post by Jdsk »

mjr wrote: 16 Jun 2022, 11:34am Is it so obvious to existing members that the rules and tools or procedures are currently inadequate
(ableism and several other isms allowed, no single -forum bans, to name two) that they have to try to press gang outsiders unfamiliar with them?
It isn't obvious to me. It feels to me as if the Moderators are overworked, but that they help to keep it generally polite and intervene appropriately when it isn't. And the approach to dangerously false information during the recent public health emergency was much better than that of some other forums.

Please could you give some details on what you think needs to be improved.

Thanks

Jonathan
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mjr
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Re: Cycling UK Forum Moderator offer

Post by mjr »

Jdsk wrote: 16 Jun 2022, 11:44am
mjr wrote: 16 Jun 2022, 11:34am Is it so obvious to existing members that the rules and tools or procedures are currently inadequate
(ableism and several other isms allowed, no single -forum bans, to name two) that they have to try to press gang outsiders unfamiliar with them?
It isn't obvious to me. It feels to me as if the Moderators are overworked, but that they help to keep it generally polite and intervene appropriately when it isn't. And the approach to dangerously false information during the recent public health emergency was much better than that of some other forums.
Yes, the emergency info was handled better here than several other transport forums, including one where they turned their upset at masks on buses harming usage into full blown denial that COVID even exists, banning dissenters and anyone who said they'd suffered COVID.

The moderators are overworked because the rules have gaps, the processes are clunky or mistaken and they're not even using the tools included in the basic software. They're modding with one hand tied.
Please could you give some details on what you think needs to be improved.
Already have :
viewtopic.php?p=1283374#p1283374
viewtopic.php?p=920980#p920980
viewtopic.php?p=881731#p881731
viewtopic.php?p=1288999#p1288999
viewtopic.php?p=1434073#p1434073
viewtopic.php?p=1559455#p1559455
viewtopic.php?p=1582390#p1582390
viewtopic.php?p=1592626#p1592626
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Jdsk
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Re: Cycling UK Forum Moderator offer

Post by Jdsk »

Thankyou

Jonathan
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Re: Cycling UK Forum Moderator offer

Post by thirdcrank »

mjr wrote: 16 Jun 2022, 11:34am Is it so obvious to existing members that the rules and tools or procedures are currently inadequate
(ableism and several other isms allowed, no single -forum bans, to name two) that they have to try to press gang outsiders unfamiliar with them?
It's not at all obvious to me. You went to the trouble to prepare a list with examples and the only thing that resonated with me was whether somebody being ignored should be notified. IMO there's a big difference between protecting free speech and guaranteeing an audience. Sending some sort of a message to a member saying you are ignoring them is possibly provocative or likely to marked up as a victory. (I may have posted before that a Nelson Eddy (?) tribute act singing "I'm ignoring you -ooo-ooo-oooooo" might be a step too far.) Ultimately, there's no real difference between not bothering with something and using the forum facilities to do it for you.

I'd not want moderation to be what I think is called weaponised in the lingo.
==================================

PS I thought horizon's suggestion of clarity about whether somebody was posting qua moderator or personally was worthy of consideration
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Re: Cycling UK Forum Moderator offer

Post by mjr »

thirdcrank wrote: 16 Jun 2022, 2:33pm It's not at all obvious to me. You went to the trouble to prepare a list with examples and the only thing that resonated with me was whether somebody being ignored should be notified. [...]
I'd not want moderation to be what I think is called weaponised in the lingo.
I don't remember suggesting that and I'm disappointed that banning ableist hate speech doesn't resonate with you.

Moderation was weaponised long ago, at least as long ago as posters with a certain political view used it to lock discussions of its fallout.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Cycling UK Forum Moderator offer

Post by thirdcrank »

Sorry if what I wrote lacked clarity. In one of your links - which alerted me to to various things I missed first time round, probably because I wasn't active on here at the time - somebody possibly 661pete - raised the issue of what might be called the etiquette of ignoring a member. I would point out that you said the problems were obvious to existing members and I thought that was an example of that.

Your reference to ableist hate speech without more context is lost on me, particularly with the reference to being disappointed. IMO, on a forum like this we don't need any intentional nastiness, even to make an otherwise valid point. It is worth remembering though that somebody may innocently post in a way others don't like. The answer is to explain the different viewpoint without being abrasive or dismissive.
Psamathe
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Re: Cycling UK Forum Moderator offer

Post by Psamathe »

When the process becomes a formal application it take a different process to being prepared to help out. e.g. I'd be prepared to help out (even offered to moderators when they/people were saying how much work it was for so few moderators) - but never got a response. But "applying for the job" somehow makes it seem like a "job" rather than "helping" (at least to me it does).

Ian
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Re: Cycling UK Forum Moderator offer

Post by thirdcrank »

Re horizon's proposal how about Mod 1, Mod 2 etc. If numbering is thought likely to create a hierarchy, then perhaps something lik Tom, Dick etc?

Rules have been mentioned and as I've said in previous discussions I think they are best avoided, not least because those who are a bit too clever simply test the limits. IMO the aim should be to foster a friendly atmosphere.

On a technical matter, which I've raised long ago, unless something has changed, anybody with moderator powers can edit any posts but their own without leaving a trace. After I'd raised it Graham began - on a voluntary basis IIRC - adding a brief note of what he's done.

I'm comfy with moderators doing their own thing but if one of my posts were to be edited, I's like it to be clear. Not an essay, just a couple of words
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Re: Cycling UK Forum Moderator offer

Post by Bonefishblues »

Is there a choice of Moderator, or is it just one who's on Special Offer?
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Re: Cycling UK Forum Moderator offer

Post by Paulatic »

Do we get to interview and select them?
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thirdcrank
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Re: Cycling UK Forum Moderator offer

Post by thirdcrank »

Paulatic wrote: 19 Jun 2022, 3:50pm Do we get to interview and select them?
That seems to be the trend

Our grandaughter's primary school is appointing a new deputy head and part of the selection process involved interviews with a panel of pupils, which is where our GD came in. I was impressed by her list of questions

re this forum: There's a serious aspect in that people might have views on who keeps them in order
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Re: Cycling UK Forum Moderator offer

Post by slowster »

In the interest of transparency and openness, Vorpal recently asked me if I would consider becoming a moderator. Given past and recent comments by Si and Mick F in a few threads, I knew that other members had been asked and had declined. I told Vorpal that I would be much more comfortable with joining the team if I were one of a few new moderators/spam busters - 'many hands make light work' and all that. I also advised her that I did not think I would be good at actively moderating threads, but that I would certainly be willing to help by deleting spam & approving new users. Put simply, I would be happy to do the tedious, boring donkey-work, but the prospect of moderating some of the arguments in the Tea Shop fills me with cold dread, especially given the deeply argumentative, abrasive, antagonistic and even hostile behaviour displayed sometimes towards the moderators.

Evidently the need for new moderators has come to a head, given that it has become necessary to involve CUK to request applicants. I think it is fairly self-evident that it would be better if new moderators were well established existing forum members who are known quantities to the moderators, and who have been here long enough to have a general awareness of the forum, its existing members, and a sense of how discussions tend to run. Someone new to the forum joining as a moderator would probably require a lot of support from the existing moderators, i.e. for some time they would probably be a resource drain rather than a help. I also agree with the adage that those who want power are often least suited to exercise it.

I wonder if the request for moderator applications via CUK has been made with a hope that it might persuade some of those members who have previously declined when approached, to change their minds. I don't know whether the moderators have contacted any of those members again to draw their attention to the CUK advert and to ask them to reconsider becoming a moderator. In other words, to make it clear that unless some of the existing members who have been approached do step up, the moderators may end up having to accept people they would rather not, with the consequent risk for the forum of poor moderating decisions, and that in turn creating a problem both for the moderating team and the forum as a whole. My guess is that the moderators might not have contacted those members, possibly because it might seem like pestering. Given however the likelihood that some or maybe even most of those members may not see the announcement by admin, in the moderators' place I would be PMing those members and asking them to reconsider becoming a moderator. Likewise if anyone reading this post has been approached, I would ask them on behalf of the forum not to refuse out of hand, and to think seriously about agreeing to help out.
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