Belonging to a Union
- NATURAL ANKLING
- Posts: 13780
- Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
- Location: English Riviera
Re: Belonging to a Union
Hi,
It does appear that most the posters have either been union activist or have been in the union/it was a closed shop so you had to be.
I was never asked to join a union I just had a form placed on my desk now and again.
Firm I worked in was so good with pay and working conditions unions had nothing to do anyway.
Except to protect the laziest of workers of which we have all seen them haven't we.
My only dealings with unions was the one day in history that the firm had strike action.
This was something like once in 35 years.
I was glared at was I walked into work but nobody said anything, I was actually an apprentice too so not a Bonyfied worker.
The day before the strike I was warned off saying I shouldn't do any of this other blokes work, I never worked with him or did any of his work anyway, but they insisted that I shouldn't do any of his work not that un-educated green apprentice could do his job anyway.
The second point was that I was spied on constantly by the unions even though they had nothing to do probably why they spied on me because they were so bored.
I was having a drink at the social club one day and the guy said I know how many cups of coffee you have in a day!
my job meant I didn't have regular tea breaks I didn't have tea breaks apart from a lunch break.
So I drank coffee whilst I worked at my desk.
Will I join a union if I was an employed job tomorrow, yes I would and I would advise anybody in an employed job to join a union.
Why because I've seen many cases of people being intimidated and sacked And then been re-employed through an agency With less rights and less money of course.
Employers bank that most people after been given the push will not go to a tribunal I wouldn't know how to go about it anyway.
That's why you need this for isn't it part anyway.
It does appear that most the posters have either been union activist or have been in the union/it was a closed shop so you had to be.
I was never asked to join a union I just had a form placed on my desk now and again.
Firm I worked in was so good with pay and working conditions unions had nothing to do anyway.
Except to protect the laziest of workers of which we have all seen them haven't we.
My only dealings with unions was the one day in history that the firm had strike action.
This was something like once in 35 years.
I was glared at was I walked into work but nobody said anything, I was actually an apprentice too so not a Bonyfied worker.
The day before the strike I was warned off saying I shouldn't do any of this other blokes work, I never worked with him or did any of his work anyway, but they insisted that I shouldn't do any of his work not that un-educated green apprentice could do his job anyway.
The second point was that I was spied on constantly by the unions even though they had nothing to do probably why they spied on me because they were so bored.
I was having a drink at the social club one day and the guy said I know how many cups of coffee you have in a day!
my job meant I didn't have regular tea breaks I didn't have tea breaks apart from a lunch break.
So I drank coffee whilst I worked at my desk.
Will I join a union if I was an employed job tomorrow, yes I would and I would advise anybody in an employed job to join a union.
Why because I've seen many cases of people being intimidated and sacked And then been re-employed through an agency With less rights and less money of course.
Employers bank that most people after been given the push will not go to a tribunal I wouldn't know how to go about it anyway.
That's why you need this for isn't it part anyway.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
Re: Belonging to a Union
"The UK electorate" includes thee and me. Does this mean we are stupid!? Gawd, I always suspected I was but now you have swept away the last scale from my eye.
On the other hand, you may have got the Boolean classifications not-quite-right when you formed that particular post. I do hope so, yes I do.
Cugel, stupid in parts, m'lud.
PS What would define a not-stupid electorate? I would like to know so I can apply for membership, once I've studied the qualification requirements and swotted up.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
John Maynard Keynes
- NATURAL ANKLING
- Posts: 13780
- Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
- Location: English Riviera
Re: Belonging to a Union
Hi,
What he said ^
Define intelligence?
We all think we know what thick is don't we
What he said ^
Define intelligence?
We all think we know what thick is don't we
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
- PedallingSquares
- Posts: 551
- Joined: 13 Mar 2022, 11:01am
Re: Belonging to a Union
Most definitely.francovendee wrote: ↑22 Jun 2022, 5:34pmA variation of divide and rule maybe?PedallingSquares wrote: ↑22 Jun 2022, 10:35am I have recently decided to retrain as a rep because.
1.We are allowed 2 reps to cover the depts I'm associated with.
2.One recently took early retirement.
3.The other is basically useless/in it for himself.
4.The dept is actually 2 separate units under 'one umbrella' and the remaining rep works in the other and has no real understanding nor care about us.
Unfortunately since I was last a rep,with a different company but same union and industry,reps have changed.They seem to be in it for what they can get rather than what they can do for everyone.My employers generally as a rule try to make reps team leaders which weakens their union status imo.I was also a team leader years ago but after I'd stepped down as a rep.There are certain managers who are opposed to me being a rep as they know I have no desire to be a team leader so they can't sway my opinions.I've had a few thinly veiled threats regarding the matter.I only have a few more years so they can threaten all they like.I won't be intimidated.Suprisingly,or maybe not,one of these 'managers' was part of our shopfloor team who basically got hand picked and fast-tracked to T/L and then shift manager because he is easily manipulated.He is the main opposer and is trying to impliment changes he would not have accepted when he was on the shopfloor.I have made it clear that these written agreements are not negotiable.I guarantee within 12 months they will try to get me to accept a T/L position.It is how management works.
It isn't how I work though
It never ceases to amaze me how some individuals can change once they think they have been given a little power.There are very few real team leaders left at work now.The good ones have retired and over the last 10 years or so they have been replaced by yes men who think they are friends with lower management and by being so will benefit them in some way.I have never been a yes man especially if the request is breaking SOPs and written manning agreement(which are linked to H&S and SOPs).
I know one thing I will enjoy my last few years being a thorn in certain managers sides
Re: Belonging to a Union
I don't think the electorate is stupid. I don't even think most are taken in by the messages of politicians. Although media obviously influence people's perspectives on many issues.
What I do think is that everyone has their own reasons for voting , or not, for the people they vote for, which includes some things that don't make any sense to me.
I'm interested in analysing many issues, and voting for someone who will contribute to building a better society. But generally, the person I vote for is someone unlikely to win, so some folks would consider my vote wasted.
Many, perhaps most people have other reasons, and these reasons are studied and tracked and compared to outlook / attitude about a multitude of things; liberal and conservative people tend to judge things on different bases. It's not just a matter of 'that's not fair / I don't care', but that they actually think differently about things.
I imagine how they think about things also applies to things like union membership.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... fferences/
What I do think is that everyone has their own reasons for voting , or not, for the people they vote for, which includes some things that don't make any sense to me.
I'm interested in analysing many issues, and voting for someone who will contribute to building a better society. But generally, the person I vote for is someone unlikely to win, so some folks would consider my vote wasted.
Many, perhaps most people have other reasons, and these reasons are studied and tracked and compared to outlook / attitude about a multitude of things; liberal and conservative people tend to judge things on different bases. It's not just a matter of 'that's not fair / I don't care', but that they actually think differently about things.
I imagine how they think about things also applies to things like union membership.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... fferences/
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
- simonineaston
- Posts: 8062
- Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
- Location: ...at a cricket ground
Re: Belonging to a Union
I learn that his civil servants at the foreign office dubbed him Five Is - “insular, imperious, idle, irascible and ignorant”...the unspeakable Raab.
(I'm glad I could cutNpaste that phrase, as the chances of me spelling all five words correctly was zero...!)
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
- simonineaston
- Posts: 8062
- Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
- Location: ...at a cricket ground
Re: Belonging to a Union
With respect, I'd call that view a generalisation. But as Leave.EU (for example) found to their considerable advantage, it's entirely possible to ignore the vast majority of the electorate, regardless of their ability to analyse and understand issues. Once you have identified the folks who will do what they always do (we are after-all, creatures of habit), you can turn your focus instead on the small number of "persuadables" and then use whatever tools are at your disposal to try to point them in a certain direction.I don't think the electorate is stupid.
Whether or not The Persuadables could be characterised as "stupid" (as remainers liked to suggest), we will never know for sure, as the data regarding messages sent to them, via social media apps, has pretty much disappeared without trace. This latter development is what Carole Cadwalladr reported on and the issue that made Arron Banks sore enough to risk suing her - and losing - over.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Re: Belonging to a Union
Voting for Brexit? Voting for Torys? Voting to get Brexit done?...."the electorate is stupid!"
Sure thats the right way around?
'How to lose friends and alienate people' by Dale Carnegie
Hmmm, not sure I got that the right way around either!
Al
Sure thats the right way around?
'How to lose friends and alienate people' by Dale Carnegie
Hmmm, not sure I got that the right way around either!
Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Re: Belonging to a Union
This discussion has to be seen in the context of how the unions have been restricted over the last thirty years. We could write pages on that alone, but we don't need to, we don't need to look further than the recent P&O sackings.
- simonineaston
- Posts: 8062
- Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
- Location: ...at a cricket ground
Re: Belonging to a Union
Earners, broadly, divide into two groups. Those who will do everything they can to earn more and more, using any opportunity that arises to further that ambition. Others are content to ask a fair wage in return for the skill they possess. If the latter can't club together, then it's just human nature that the former will take advantage of that fact...
Quite why the average Britain has migrated away from seeing trade union membership as beneficial, towards thinking of it as somehow rather grubby is beyond me. Maybe this is Thatcher's most dangerous legacy.
As things stand, union membership may be the last vestige of defence against the ghastly belief held by many of the hard right (including most of the current cabinet) that "Greed Is Good!". Anyone who thinks I'm talking cobblers, please feel free to do an internet search for the key words "Ayn Rand Truss Patel" or else jump straight to this article in The New Statesman.
Quite why the average Britain has migrated away from seeing trade union membership as beneficial, towards thinking of it as somehow rather grubby is beyond me. Maybe this is Thatcher's most dangerous legacy.
As things stand, union membership may be the last vestige of defence against the ghastly belief held by many of the hard right (including most of the current cabinet) that "Greed Is Good!". Anyone who thinks I'm talking cobblers, please feel free to do an internet search for the key words "Ayn Rand Truss Patel" or else jump straight to this article in The New Statesman.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Re: Belonging to a Union
Dont think that is correct.simonineaston wrote: ↑23 Jun 2022, 4:01pm
Quite why the average Britain has migrated away from seeing trade union membership as beneficial, towards thinking of it as somehow rather grubby is beyond me. Maybe this is Thatcher's most dangerous legacy.
But many people suffered all sorts of inconveniences and financial losses as a result of unreasonable militant unions and still see them as a negative force in our society. Just like the train strike. New enemys are multiplying right now....
Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Re: Belonging to a Union
A very clever man is quoted as saying :-Cugel wrote: ↑23 Jun 2022, 10:43am"The UK electorate" includes thee and me. Does this mean we are stupid!? Gawd, I always suspected I was but now you have swept away the last scale from my eye.
On the other hand, you may have got the Boolean classifications not-quite-right when you formed that particular post. I do hope so, yes I do.
Cugel, stupid in parts, m'lud.
PS What would define a not-stupid electorate? I would like to know so I can apply for membership, once I've studied the qualification requirements and swotted up.
We can argue over whether enough of the electorate* are insane to expect a different result or whether enough* of us are just plain daft,suit yourself.Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results
I'm the one saying the king(Tory party) are without clothes in full view,I thought the same about New Labour after the 1997 election too FWIW.
I'll freely admit to being a bit foolish and daft myself at times granted.
*apologies I should've perhaps made it clear in my previous post that it is enough of the electorate not all of us
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Re: Belonging to a Union
Like the train strike, those low paid upstarts asking for more than 2% after three years Militants
As for those who lost money due to union action, it's nothing compared to the losses suffered since, not just monies, whole communities, particularly mining ones. And for what? We didn't stop burning coal for another thirty years, much of it imported at a higher cost than if the UK had mined it, and dirtier burning. That higher cost doesn't even account for he damage to the balance of payments...
Re: Belonging to a Union
I often wonder, Al .... have you read and internalised any of the Ayn Rand novels? Would you classify yoursen as a-one of her "objectivists"?al_yrpal wrote: ↑23 Jun 2022, 4:59pmDont think that is correct.simonineaston wrote: ↑23 Jun 2022, 4:01pm
Quite why the average Britain has migrated away from seeing trade union membership as beneficial, towards thinking of it as somehow rather grubby is beyond me. Maybe this is Thatcher's most dangerous legacy.
But many people suffered all sorts of inconveniences and financial losses as a result of unreasonable militant unions and still see them as a negative force in our society. Just like the train strike. New enemys are multiplying right now....
Al
A good while ago I spent many hours churning through the turgid prose of these novels ("The Fountainhead" and "Atlas Shrugged"). I also read a biography by one her former acolytes. It was all an eye-opener to the mental landscapes of those of her many fans (and they are best classified as fans) who are powerful and politically effective in the USA. (As in becoming good at being corrupt oligarchs).
It was a bit of shock to read that many of those Tory cabinet ministers we currently suffer under are also fans of Ayn Rand's almost inhuman "philosophy". Mind, they may have only read a gushing puff by some American fan, rather than the long and turgid novels. (These novels are the very epitome of, "The novel I could never finish; or read past page 10 of 1073)". Incidentally, I'll here mention that I've read both TWICE and with a lot of yellow highlighting. Yes.
I always found her name for the claimed "philosophy" she droned on and and on about, "Objectivism", a good chuckle. It would be hard to find a way of thinking about society, politics and culture that is more "subjective" - that is, without empathy or sympathy to the point of being solipsism. She is oblivious to a vast swathe of human thinking and feeling. Perhaps she should have called her peculiar thoughts "Obliviousism"?
Cugel, currently reading Madeline Miller's "Circe".
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
John Maynard Keynes
Re: Belonging to a Union
Yeah,but if you're right wing leaning enough it was all worth it to show those dirty miners who's bossPH wrote: ↑23 Jun 2022, 6:06pmLike the train strike, those low paid upstarts asking for more than 2% after three years Militants
As for those who lost money due to union action, it's nothing compared to the losses suffered since, not just monies, whole communities, particularly mining ones. And for what? We didn't stop burning coal for another thirty years, much of it imported at a higher cost than if the UK had mined it, and dirtier burning. That higher cost doesn't even account for he damage to the balance of payments...
Thatcher,some think she was the best PM the UK ever had,others know better......
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden