Was I in the wrong?

[Tiggertoo]

My advice to Chris the next time he comes across this sort of thing is to give a wave, a smile, a sorry and move on.

Chris obviously took avoiding action in good time, but, like him, I do not like bullies, and I would have given the bus driver a dirty look, at the very least.

That's the spirit.

[Chris56]

Mike/Tiggertoo - I really do appreaciate both of your views on this.

One thing I pick up from your last posts is that, whilst standing up to bullies is important, I shouldn't let it get to me and spoil the ride. One way to deal with bullies is to show them that they haven't bothered you and a simple "whatever" wave might have been the better thing to do.

After the second incident I decided to take a slow ride along the canal and it was bliss - plenty of wildlife and people to say hello to as I passed. Zero negativity.

[drossall]

Wise words. But Mike Sales has a point in that one reason, in my understanding, for the Bikeability training scheme is to teach cyclists not to be overly defensive, because it can indeed lead to bad situations. That's not the same thing as going tyre to tyre with a double-decker bus over who has priority. There's assertiveness, and then there is folly.

[thirdcrank]

I only watched the vid once, but it's - presumably unwittingly - a manifesto for people who oppose farcilities for the dangers they can create.

[mjr]

Here's the current national standard layout for a traffic-lit junction with cycleways from Figure 10.29 of LTN 1/20:

Isn’t that for unidirectional cycle lanes?

Where the trouble seems to strike is with bidirectional ones.

There's no equivalent drawing for bidirectional lanes. Section 10.6.18 says "Separate cycle phases can be useful: [...] when a two-way lane passes through a junction." I think that's the government's preferred solution to the problem but I didn't find it stated more directly.

[thirdcrank]

I've watched the vid again to see if I missed anything. This time, I listened to the soundtrack which is just music.

IMO, the vid doesn't really help. I think that what's needed is a clear statement of purpose by the council. Along the lines that motor traffic has been identified as a problem and that promoting cycling is seen as part of the solution so this cycle route and others have been installed to help cyclists. Followed by an explanation of the duties of all road users eg as summarised iirc higher up by mjr. I'd see value in something even stronger to official and semi-official bodies like council departments and bus companies. Nor would it come amiss to explain the policy formally to officials like the police and crime commissioner and the area crown prosecutor.

[Stevek76]

There is a simlar junction further along (where Castle Boulevard meets Castle Marina) and that one uses a secondary traffic light for cyclists as well as the lines (see pic from streetview) - both of which are missing from the junction where this morning's incident occured.

That seems rather odd really. Is the side road signalised or marked as give way? The lights aren't there only for a pedestrian crossing in this case?

Here's the current national standard layout for a traffic-lit junction with cycleways from Figure 10.29 of LTN 1/20:
2022-06-21_15-57.png

A design which was fairly outdated in terms of best practice before ltn1/20 was published sadly, one of the rather weak points in the document.

[Chris56]

Video of junction this morning, walking in direction I was riding yesterday morning:

https://youtube.com/shorts/TcDF3ioHKWE?feature=share

Traffic lights next to cycle lane seem to have been covered

[mjr]

Here's the current national standard layout for a traffic-lit junction with cycleways from Figure 10.29 of LTN 1/20:
2022-06-21_15-57.png

A design which was fairly outdated in terms of best practice before ltn1/20 was published sadly, one of the rather weak points in the document.

Show us something better. Bonus if it is in a publication that can be argued to supersede LTN 1/20.

[Jdsk]

Video of junction this morning, walking in direction I was riding yesterday morning:

https://youtube.com/shorts/TcDF3ioHKWE?feature=share

Traffic lights next to cycle lane seem to have been covered

Thanks for adding that.

Jonathan

[drossall]

Is there a formal definition somewhere of the meaning of the green boxes? I Googled quickly but didn't find it. One for a US state, but that's not much help!

[thirdcrank]

Video of junction this morning, walking in direction I was riding yesterday morning:

https://youtube.com/shorts/TcDF3ioHKWE?feature=share

Traffic lights next to cycle lane seem to have been covered

Thanks for that. I fear I may have been over-optimistic. Trying to check the layout at the start of your thread, I looked at streetview which shows the recent streetworks. I had naively assumed that this was a genuine attempt to create a decent cycle route, as implied in my comment about the official video. Looking at your vid it looks like same old. Anybody can mark off a bit of the gutter or footway on s straight bit of road as a farcility but the problems arise at any sort of junction. And this is a junction.

[Stevek76]

Show us something better. Bonus if it is in a publication that can be argued to supersede LTN 1/20.

Just any fully protected junction will do. Both Cyclops (Manchester/Cambridge) or a variation of the Dutch orientation (cycles on the inside) as seen eg lea bridge road in Waltham forest. Reasonably sure ATE will look more favourably on proposals for those than paint with hold the lefts regardless of the contents of ltn1/20.

[eileithyia]

Generally, any vehicle turning from a major road into a minor road, MUST give way to any traffic going straight on irrespective of direction.

Traffic being pedestrians, cyclists, horses.

Am not reading through 4 pages and have only read first page... but the above is the new guidance in the Highway Code that was thoroughly discussed by oh so many people on social media.. certainly a professional driver such as a bus driver should have been updated on the new rules / guidance by their training officers.
Regardless of who is right or wrong (personally on the new guidelines the bus driver) I still wouldn't cross such a junction without double checking that no one is turning in.... keeping safe is my priority and not being run into by several tonnes of metal is something I attempt to avoid.

[Stevek76]

Video of junction this morning, walking in direction I was riding yesterday morning:

https://youtube.com/shorts/TcDF3ioHKWE?feature=share

Traffic lights next to cycle lane seem to have been covered

There's two sets of signals on that, i think the bottom set are supposed to be cycle specific ones and the cycle track is intended to be on a separate stage.

If you go far enough West on streetview (castle wharf jnc) there is actually some newer photography and you can zoom in and see the lower signals active.