Muc-off cleaner as an ultrasonic bath surfactant?

[Cugel]

Having tried the 592 other chain cleaning methods, I'm going to have a go at using an ultrasonic bath to superclean chains after the main-muck has been removed with a degreaser. The recommendation is mineral-free water with a surfactant added. I have Muc-off bike cleaner (a long ago bargain from Aldi) which says its "alkaline". Would this added, say 10 or 20-to-1, in the ultrasonic bath water act as a surfactant sufficient to allow efficient cavitation of the wee bubbles?

If not, is a few drops of washing-up liquid suitable?

Cugel

[tatanab]

For a few years I have been using "special liquid" in a small domestic ultrasonic bath. I am running out of this, so have taken to using a small amount of washing up liquid. After all, the aim is only to lower the surface tension as far as I can tell. Having removed the crud I use the original liquid (in water) for one wash and then subsequent washes with a few drops of washing up liquid until the water is clear, or nearly so, at the end of the wash. It seems to work ok. Then hang the chain to dry, oil it, and refit.

[Mick F]

I bought an ultrasonic cleaner thing some years ago.
I gave up with it as i was rubbish, no matter what cleaning solution I used.

Best way of cleaning anything, is to drop them in a jar/container with a tight lid using your favourite cleaning solution, and give it a good shake and shoogling.
Cheaper and simpler too.

Thanks for bringing this subject up, as I'm in the process of getting rid of stuff I no longer use or need.
The ultra sonic cleaning bath is just one of them. Expect to see it up for sale on here for some mug to buy it!

[Jdsk]

Having tried the 592 other chain cleaning methods, I'm going to have a go at using an ultrasonic bath to superclean chains after the main-muck has been removed with a degreaser. The recommendation is mineral-free water with a surfactant added. I have Muc-off bike cleaner (a long ago bargain from Aldi) which says its "alkaline". Would this added, say 10 or 20-to-1, in the ultrasonic bath water act as a surfactant sufficient to allow efficient cavitation of the wee bubbles?

If not, is a few drops of washing-up liquid suitable?

There's a lot of different Muc-Off products and I think that we're talking about one which has a surfactant as the active component.

Most commercial surfactants are rather similar for this sort of task. The "mineral-free" bit is the same as "low salt". From the cleaning point of view that isn't particularly important if you rinse any residual salt away afterwards.

There are two different sorts of "bubbles" in play: the ones created by the ultrasound and the micelles formed by the surfactant acting a detergent with the hydrophobic stuff that you're trying to remove.

I think that Muc-Off cleaner would be suitable. A comparative trial with washing-up liquid would be very helpful. And it would best be done blinded.

In general people add a lot more surfactant than is needed.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

Best way of cleaning anything, is to drop them in a jar/container with a tight lid using your favourite cleaning solution, and give it a good shake and shoogling.

I'd recommend starting with mechanical removal of crud before this.

And there are two completely different types of "cleaning solution": solvents and detergents. For bike chains preferences and practice seems to be very divided.

Having tried the 592 other chain cleaning methods...

!

Jonathan

[Cugel]

Best way of cleaning anything, is to drop them in a jar/container with a tight lid using your favourite cleaning solution, and give it a good shake and shoogling.

I'd recommend starting with mechanical removal of crud before this.

And there are two completely different types of "cleaning solution": solvents and detergents. For bike chains preferences and practice seems to be very divided.

Having tried the 592 other chain cleaning methods...

!

Jonathan

Don't be alarmed by the many methods. 537 of them are just made up stuff to sell cleaning goos.

Me, I like playing so the ultrasound gubbins is really just another toy. On the other hand, my usual method of chain cleaning (the Mick shake-it-in-a-container method, using one degreaser or another) often reveals an alarming amount of grit settled out in the bottom after it's all left to stand for a while. How much of that grit remains in the very innard of the chain, eh? I have cleaned one twice and even three times in a row and still got some additional grit out of it.

My post-clean re-lubrication has involved various lubricants in past times, even that filthy black Linklife with grease-borne graphite as an ingredient . Just lately I've been using TF2 or GT85, relying on that naughty teflon stuff. It does give a clean and unsticky chain which nevertheless runs quietly and without wearing any faster than with other lubricants. But there's still that black gritty stuff when I do clean it.

It would be interesting to see what that black grit consists of. I read that the stuff one should try to remove as often as possible is aluminium oxide, created when alloy chainrings are ground and heated by steel chain parts. Is that what happens I wonder? Aluminium oxide is sharp and good at sanding down things, as I know only too well from the woodworking. But how much is in chain dirt and how much of that dirt is just ordinary ole mud from the road (and tyre dust)?

Cugel, digressing as usual.

[Jdsk]

It would be interesting to see what that black grit consists of.

Now you've got me thinking about appropriate methods of analysis...

: - )

Jonathan

[tatanab]

Me, I like playing so the ultrasound gubbins is really just another toy. On the other hand, my usual method of chain cleaning (the Mick shake-it-in-a-container method, using one degreaser or another)

I do the shake and rattle in a jar of paraffin to remove the loose crud before moving on to the ultrasonic cleaner.

[freeflow]

As with everything, the utility of an ultrasonic bath depends on how effective it is at generating ultrasonics. My current sonic bath definitely has hot spots so it helps to occasionally swoosh things around in the bath so that different parts have exposure. For the small amounts left in a chain after a thorough shake in white spirits (at least two changes of white spirit) its not necessary to use surfactant to remove the remaining crud, but it does potentially stop an oily film forming at the surface of the water.

Its now a couple of years since I had to resort to cleaning chains in this manner as that's when I switched to hot wax lubrication and found that chain maintenance became a whole lot easier.

My sonic bath is now generally used for cleaning other peoples bits (bike bits you naughty people....) when they come around for a bit of maintenance help.

[MarcusT]

I am too cheap to purchase an U S cleaner. I took an old orbital pad sander, upside down, attached a cake pan to it , then add household degreaser. It works very well. I do not believe there is a better method to get internal crud out of a chain.

[francovendee]

I can't comment on Muc-off as a surfactant but thoroughly recommend a decent ultrasonic cleaner. I use a heavy duty cleaner from Screwfix at 5% in mine.
It's fairly easy to get the dirt off the outside of the chain but getting it from inside is harder. The ultrasonic cleaner cavitates bubbles in the smallest of spaces.
I proved how effective it was by trying my old method (thanks MickF) on a chain until it looked very clean. I then put it into the ultrasonic tank and was surprised by how much dirt came out.
It's pointless buying a tank intended to clean jewellery, it won't be powerful enough. Mine came from China and is well made of stainless steel and is fitted with a heater and a timer. It cost under £50.

[Jdsk]

On the other hand, my usual method of chain cleaning (the Mick shake-it-in-a-container method, using one degreaser or another)...

then add household degreaser.

Are these solvents or surfactants, please?

For the small amounts left in a chain after a thorough shake in white spirits (at least two changes of white spirit) its not necessary to use surfactant to remove the remaining crud, but it does potentially stop an oily film forming at the surface of the water.

Thanks

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

I proved how effective it was by trying my old method (thanks MickF) on a chain until it looked very clean. I then put it into the ultrasonic tank and was surprised by how much dirt came out.

Congratulations on doing the experiment. The visible parts looking clean is only one of the objectives of the exercise!

Jonathan

[reohn2]

I bought an ultrasonic cleaner thing some years ago.
I gave up with it as i was rubbish, no matter what cleaning solution I used.

Best way of cleaning anything, is to drop them in a jar/container with a tight lid using your favourite cleaning solution, and give it a good shake and shoogling.
Cheaper and simpler too........

Yep,also my chain cleaning method too and has been for many a year.

I wouldn't know what ultrasonic bath looks like,perhaps I'm missing something but why the need suddenly for this sort of technical wizardry to clean a bicycle chain?

[Jdsk]

I wouldn't know what ultrasonic bath looks like,perhaps I'm missing something but why the need suddenly for this sort of technical wizardry to clean a bicycle chain?

It's an interesting experiment. And, as above, there may be a surprising amount of potentially abrasive crud remaining after using another much-quoted method.

Jonathan