Does saying "sorry" help?
Does saying "sorry" help?
I think it does. A delivery cyclist who knocked down a four year old boy on a pedestrian street in Cardiff has handed himself in and written a letter of apology.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61883065
Why he didn't hang around in the first place I don't know. Fear, perhaps. But it sounds like he feels bad about what happened and wants to put right what he can put right.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61883065
Why he didn't hang around in the first place I don't know. Fear, perhaps. But it sounds like he feels bad about what happened and wants to put right what he can put right.
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Re: Does saying "sorry" help?
I've been surprised at their sudden prevalence in town & city centres (e-bike delivery cyclists, that is)
And yes, although he should have stopped at the first opportunity, at least this is a first step.
And yes, although he should have stopped at the first opportunity, at least this is a first step.
Re: Does saying "sorry" help?
It isn't difficult to understand why an individual in that position may ride off, due to a multitude of reasons. But clearly has a conscience, or who knows a fear of the consequences and has acted in a decent matter thereafter
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Re: Does saying "sorry" help?
OK so let's get this straight here. Someone left the scene of an accident where someone was injured, it shouldn't matter who but it obviously dies, and we're giving him credit for owning up later? He's written a letter of apology instead of staying at the scene, and we're giving him credit for that? A letter he's no doubt been advised to write to mitigate his actions.
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Re: Does saying "sorry" help?
You might well be correct. On the other hand who hasn’t reacted to a situation in a non-optimal way or taken a course of action that they later felt wasn’t right? Of course the person concerned might also have judged that hanging around would endanger their personal safety … events can easily get out of hand.Tangled Metal wrote: ↑22 Jun 2022, 8:17am OK so let's get this straight here. Someone left the scene of an accident where someone was injured, it shouldn't matter who but it obviously dies, and we're giving him credit for owning up later? He's written a letter of apology instead of staying at the scene, and we're giving him credit for that? A letter he's no doubt been advised to write to mitigate his actions.
In general I think that saying sorry does help matters.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
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Re: Does saying "sorry" help?
A letter of apology is surely a solicitor's mitigation? I guess we'll never agree about the apology being worth much.
Do you think it would be worth much if it wasn't his idea, was a solicitor's idea when it got to any legal proceedings or after some time?
Anyone know more details?
Do you think it would be worth much if it wasn't his idea, was a solicitor's idea when it got to any legal proceedings or after some time?
Anyone know more details?
Re: Does saying "sorry" help?
I'll report back if I see further news reports. As yet, information is thin on the ground. The reasoning behind an apology is certainly an issue. Is it genuine remorse or is it a ploy? And why did the he not stay at the scene? Why did he hand himself in? Did he do so because he felt remorse or did he see himself portrayed on CCTV and think someone would be naming him soon? There is a lot we don't know. The best interpretation is that he made a couple of mistakes, felt bad about it and tried to make amends. At the other end of the interpretation range he is a git, trying to minimise his punishment.
Re: Does saying "sorry" help?
Nail,head,on!Tangled Metal wrote: ↑22 Jun 2022, 8:17am OK so let's get this straight here. Someone left the scene of an accident where someone was injured, it shouldn't matter who but it obviously does, and we're giving him credit for owning up later? He's written a letter of apology instead of staying at the scene, and we're giving him credit for that? A letter he's no doubt been advised to write to mitigate his actions.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Re: Does saying "sorry" help?
He shouldn't have left the scene. Having left the scene he should have contacted the police as soon as possible. If he didn't do that by himself he should have done it after being advised by someone else.Tangled Metal wrote: ↑22 Jun 2022, 8:17am OK so let's get this straight here. Someone left the scene of an accident where someone was injured, it shouldn't matter who but it obviously dies, and we're giving him credit for owning up later? He's written a letter of apology instead of staying at the scene, and we're giving him credit for that? A letter he's no doubt been advised to write to mitigate his actions.
I don't think that anyone is saying any more than that.
Jonathan
Re: Does saying "sorry" help?
I'm not a fan of restorative justice (or victim impact statements). But I once went to a talk by the police officer responsible for this in Oxfordshire and had a conversation with him afterwards. He thought that it was very helpful in some circumstances.
What's the current evidence?
Thanks
Jonathan
What's the current evidence?
Thanks
Jonathan
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Re: Does saying "sorry" help?
I suspect there's a difference between the criminal law and civil law here.
With the former, in addition to duties like stopping and giving details, there are things which can mitigate an eventual sentence like showing remorse etc.
In civil (compo) cases in addition to complying with statutory duties, there's the vexed question of admission of liability.
Both are further complicated by urban myths - the result of so much of the system being arcane
With the former, in addition to duties like stopping and giving details, there are things which can mitigate an eventual sentence like showing remorse etc.
In civil (compo) cases in addition to complying with statutory duties, there's the vexed question of admission of liability.
Both are further complicated by urban myths - the result of so much of the system being arcane
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Re: Does saying "sorry" help?
Local bobbies caught kids trespassing on the old factory roofs on our industrial estate. They only caught one bit being something like 7 years old they couldn't do much except arrange an intervention.
The police officer, actually a PCSO, an organising police officer, social worker, teacher, child, parent and estate owners representative met. The owners rep was apparently very calm but very informative. The parent was giving it all the aggressive "boys will be boys" response until the rep got onto the story of a trained roofer who was part of a team fixing one of the roofs who died. The rep had the insurance and police photos but didn't show them as her description was enough to send everyone's faces white!
The outcome was the local kids stopped climbing on roofs and the mother of said miscreant was burbling on about him not doing it again.
To illustrate it further a few years after that a kid moved into the area and was later found having fallen through the roof. The other local kids didn't go there. Things like that can work.
The police officer, actually a PCSO, an organising police officer, social worker, teacher, child, parent and estate owners representative met. The owners rep was apparently very calm but very informative. The parent was giving it all the aggressive "boys will be boys" response until the rep got onto the story of a trained roofer who was part of a team fixing one of the roofs who died. The rep had the insurance and police photos but didn't show them as her description was enough to send everyone's faces white!
The outcome was the local kids stopped climbing on roofs and the mother of said miscreant was burbling on about him not doing it again.
To illustrate it further a few years after that a kid moved into the area and was later found having fallen through the roof. The other local kids didn't go there. Things like that can work.
Re: Does saying "sorry" help?
Yup, you've got it!Tangled Metal wrote: ↑22 Jun 2022, 8:17am OK so let's get this straight here. Someone left the scene of an accident where someone was injured, it shouldn't matter who but it obviously dies, and we're giving him credit for owning up later?
Yup, again you've got it! He'd get MORE credit for staying at the scene of course. We'd give him LESS credit if - for example - he had stayed and buried the body. Or fled the country after seeing the Police Appeal.Tangled Metal wrote: ↑22 Jun 2022, 8:17am He's written a letter of apology instead of staying at the scene, and we're giving him credit for that?
These are the kind of things a judge would weigh-up at sentencing. he'd have a range to choose from - not just:
GUILTY AS HELL or GUILTY , but very sorry, and basically a nice chap!
Let's assume innocent until proven guilty on that one.Tangled Metal wrote: ↑22 Jun 2022, 8:17am A letter he's no doubt been advised to write to mitigate his actions.
Re: Does saying "sorry" help?
Running away from an accident to a child is unforgivable at any time. A genuine accident is hardly wanton and deliberate where a quick escape might be required.
I cannot believe why anyone would not be concerned especially where a child is involved. Obviously we do not know all the facts of the incident but we all have a conscience. Shame on him
I cannot believe why anyone would not be concerned especially where a child is involved. Obviously we do not know all the facts of the incident but we all have a conscience. Shame on him
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Re: Does saying "sorry" help?
We don't - they may have been offered direct violence by a parent, or bystanders, or any one of many different reasons, when absenting oneself might be the right thing to do in the circumstances.Antbrewer wrote: ↑22 Jun 2022, 3:38pm Running away from an accident to a child is unforgivable at any time. A genuine accident is hardly wanton and deliberate where a quick escape might be required.
I cannot believe why anyone would not be concerned especially where a child is involved. Obviously we do not know all the facts of the incident but we all have a conscience. Shame on him