Sora R3000 Front Derailleur

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Valbrona
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Joined: 7 Feb 2011, 4:49pm

Sora R3000 Front Derailleur

Post by Valbrona »

Got one of these on a rim brake bike. Works well, just as one would expect.

The problem with this bike however, is stance width: too low. I'm not able to afford new, longer axle pedals (Wahoo), so I've fitted a triple crankset in place of the double (with inner chainring removed) ... and now stance width is okay.

But now I'm really disappointed that the FD doesn't seem to want to work with increased chainline.

I thought the redesigned Shimano front derailleurs were meant to work with both disc brake and rim brake chainlines, but I am obviously mistaken.

Whatdya say folks?
I should coco.
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531colin
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Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Sora R3000 Front Derailleur

Post by 531colin »

Valbrona wrote: 22 Jun 2022, 6:04pm .......... disc brake and rim brake chainlines,............
Errrr...not sure about that? Even "road" disc hubs are 135mm, I think?
Does GRX (?) (...shimano's "gravel" groupset) have a wider chainline to get past bigger tyres?

anyway, to business.....what happens if you put the existing big ring in the middle ring position, and get a new "middle" ring for the granny position?
My guess is you go from too wide a chainline straight to too narrow?
assuming its an external BB, can you do anything with spacers?
and finally....does it matter "which side" the extra tread width is?
peetee
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Location: Upon a lumpy, scarred granite massif.

Re: Sora R3000 Front Derailleur

Post by peetee »

Go back to the original set-up and fit pedal spacers.
FF874A75-EEBE-4B55-B17D-48307C79E64F.jpeg
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
Valbrona
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Joined: 7 Feb 2011, 4:49pm

Re: Sora R3000 Front Derailleur

Post by Valbrona »

Thanks for your comments.

Those pedal extenders would increase stance width too much.

In respect of *double crankset* chainline, I believe there to be regular chainline based on 130 OLD and disc brake chainline based on 135. The latter being 2.5mm greater than the former.

Luckily in spares box #34 I have a SRAM 'wide spacing' front derailleur adapter, which I reckon gives 2.5mm extra outward spacing, so will give it ago once I get hold of a braze-on FD, as opposed to my banded version.
I should coco.
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interestedcp
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Re: Sora R3000 Front Derailleur

Post by interestedcp »

Not sure I understand your problem exactly, but if the problem is that the front derailleur can't move outwards enough to work with the outer chainring, then please notice that this front derailleur comes with at "converter" that can be positioned in two positions, and that setting the converter to "ON" makes it moves further outwards. I had to move the converter from the default "OFF" to the "ON" position in order to make it work on my double chainset, despite that the manual suggested it wasn't necessary with my cable routing.

The Sora FD-R3000 comes with a small plastic tool to determine the converter position. I didn't use when I installed the FD, since it is probably faster just to try setting the converter to another position, than reading the manual on how to use the tool.

Also notice that the cable routing and fastening works differently too that standard Shimano front derailleurs. The Sora FD-R3000 therefore has it own special Dealers Manual on the https://si.shimano.com/ site.

Fastening the wire the wrong way may cause wire slippage, here is a video showing the result of that:
https://youtu.be/mRwWY-nRcfQ
--
Regards
Valbrona
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Joined: 7 Feb 2011, 4:49pm

Re: Sora R3000 Front Derailleur

Post by Valbrona »

Thanks for that.

I have chosen to view the purpose of the 'pin thingy' differently. Whether in the ON or OFF position I don't think it has any bearing on how far the cage can move outward. Remember there's a limit screw limiting outward movement.

I think the 'pin thingy' is to try and achieve good cable routing on the variety of frames out there now - some cables come up in between the chainstays, others through a hole in the (carbon) frame, and so on.

The special SRAM FD adapter I have used seems to have done the job in as much as the FD is now capable of moving far enough outwards - at least during testing on the bike stand.
I should coco.
AndyK
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Location: Mid Hampshire

Re: Sora R3000 Front Derailleur

Post by AndyK »

You've replaced a double chainset with a triple. (It's still a triple, even if you've taken the inner ring off.) For a given chainline, the outer ring of a triple chainset is going to sit further out than the outer ring of the double it replaced. So the mech has to move further out from the frame. Shimano make the FD-R3030 specifically for triple chainsets. You're trying to make a double mech (FD-R3000) work with a triple-ring chainset. Certainly it's a shame that it hasn't got the capacity but it's not that surprising. Nothing to do with disc brakes.

The "pin thingy" (the "converter", as Shimano calls it) does change how far the mech moves for a given cable pull.
Shimano dealer manual wrote:The distance of the movement of the front derailleur varies according to the end point of the cable guide or the position of the hole in the frame through which the cable is passed. Adjust the distance of the movement by turning ON/OFF the converter.
It's to do with the angle the cable is pulling at, I think.
Valbrona
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Joined: 7 Feb 2011, 4:49pm

Re: Sora R3000 Front Derailleur

Post by Valbrona »

AndyK wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 2:24pm You've replaced a double chainset with a triple. (It's still a triple, even if you've taken the inner ring off.) For a given chainline, the outer ring of a triple chainset is going to sit further out than the outer ring of the double it replaced. So the mech has to move further out from the frame. Shimano make the FD-R3030 specifically for triple chainsets. You're trying to make a double mech (FD-R3000) work with a triple-ring chainset. Certainly it's a shame that it hasn't got the capacity but it's not that surprising. Nothing to do with disc brakes.
The two (outer) rings on my triple chainset sit in the same position as the two rings on my disc brake-specific, double crankset. My thinking all along being that the newer generation of Shimano ROAD front derailleurs, including FD-R3000, are capable of working with a wider range of chainlines, including the wider chainlines found on disc brake bikes owing to 135 as opposed to 130 OLD.
AndyK wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 2:24pm The "pin thingy" (the "converter", as Shimano calls it) does change how far the mech moves for a given cable pull.
Shimano dealer manual wrote:The distance of the movement of the front derailleur varies according to the end point of the cable guide or the position of the hole in the frame through which the cable is passed. Adjust the distance of the movement by turning ON/OFF the converter.
It's to do with the angle the cable is pulling at, I think.
Yes, the 'converter' might influence how far the FD moves in respect of each cable pull, but the outer limit of movement of the FD is fixed by how far in or how far out the limit screw is screwed. No?
I should coco.
AndyK
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Joined: 17 Aug 2007, 2:08pm
Location: Mid Hampshire

Re: Sora R3000 Front Derailleur

Post by AndyK »

Valbrona wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 6:10pm
AndyK wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 2:24pm You've replaced a double chainset with a triple. (It's still a triple, even if you've taken the inner ring off.) For a given chainline, the outer ring of a triple chainset is going to sit further out than the outer ring of the double it replaced. So the mech has to move further out from the frame. Shimano make the FD-R3030 specifically for triple chainsets. You're trying to make a double mech (FD-R3000) work with a triple-ring chainset. Certainly it's a shame that it hasn't got the capacity but it's not that surprising. Nothing to do with disc brakes.
The two (outer) rings on my triple chainset sit in the same position as the two rings on my disc brake-specific, double crankset. My thinking all along being that the newer generation of Shimano ROAD front derailleurs, including FD-R3000, are capable of working with a wider range of chainlines, including the wider chainlines found on disc brake bikes owing to 135 as opposed to 130 OLD.
AndyK wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 2:24pm The "pin thingy" (the "converter", as Shimano calls it) does change how far the mech moves for a given cable pull.
Shimano dealer manual wrote:The distance of the movement of the front derailleur varies according to the end point of the cable guide or the position of the hole in the frame through which the cable is passed. Adjust the distance of the movement by turning ON/OFF the converter.
It's to do with the angle the cable is pulling at, I think.
Yes, the 'converter' might influence how far the FD moves in respect of each cable pull, but the outer limit of movement of the FD is fixed by how far in or how far out the limit screw is screwed. No?
Yes and no. :-) Firstly the design of the derailleur body prevents it from swinging out beyond a certain limit even if you've unscrewed the limit screw completely and taken it out.
Secondly, suppose you loosen the limit screw all the way off, then you operate the shifter and find that the mech won't move far enough out - even though it's not hitting the limit screw. So you tighten the cable, only to find that when you change back down, it no longer lines up over the inner ring. You can't move the mech far enough out without messing up the alignment on the inner position. This would be a symptom of a insufficient cable pull, and the converter is meant to help address that.
Finally, of course, something else may be getting in the way. (A mudguard, for instance.)

As for the chainlines, this may be informative: https://www.velonews.com/gear/technical ... ake-bikes/
It seems Shimano has not changed the chainline on its 2x11 road groupsets.
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