Interesting perspective from artic lorry driving

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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PedallingSquares
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Re: Interesting perspective from artic lorry driving

Post by PedallingSquares »

mattsccm wrote: 26 Jun 2022, 1:06pm I guess that like many here I am not greatly in sympathy.
My overidng belief is that if a vehicle cannot stay within their own section of road then they shoud not be there. Lorries going wide for sharp bends is my pet hate.
Please explain how you expect them to make the turn without doing so?
They are better nowadays due to the help of rear wheel turning but at 16m-ish long what do you expect?
Buses do the same yet they are loved on cycling forums as they are public transport :roll:
My pet hate is car drivers in tiny little cars that indicate left then swing out to the right before turning left.I’ve also seen bikers and cyclists do this!?Why?
Jdsk
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Re: Interesting perspective from artic lorry driving

Post by Jdsk »

PedallingSquares wrote: 27 Jun 2022, 10:42amMy pet hate is car drivers in tiny little cars that indicate left then swing out to the right before turning left.I’ve also seen bikers and cyclists do this!?Why?
It's bad practice. I think that it's done to increase the radius of the turn and decrease the required steering input.

Jonathan
Jon in Sweden
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Re: Interesting perspective from artic lorry driving

Post by Jon in Sweden »

Pebble wrote: 26 Jun 2022, 3:21pm
So are you actually training in a fully loaded wagon (6x2 pulling a triaxle) ? and what sort of box, (most are auto now) but you could still end up with a range change splitter or even a twin splitter, lol (best box ever invented, when you got used to them))

You were right about needing six 7½ tonners to do the same work, puddlejumpers will only carry 3.5 to 4t with a heavy typically carrying 26t. As a cyclist I would rather one artic passed than half a dozen 7.5 tonners, from my experiance these along with the giant sprinter type vans are the most recklessly driven commercials on the road.

Do artics cause that much problems in cities? every time I read of cyclists being killed by wagons it seems to be 6 and 8 legged ridgid tippers, (part of the haulage industry traditionally associated with bonus culture!)

As usual getting stuff on the railways always crops up, but it just doesn't work in a small country, the goods still have to get to the train then at the other end taken by lorry from the train to its destination, probaly works out at 50% of the milage. So you are not getting rid of the wagons in the cities or rural areas (farms) you are just reducing traffic on motorways. And from an environmental point of view the energy saved on the trunking will be used up in the handling, 26 ton wagon to train then 26t train to wagon. And the timescale would be many days not hours, not to mention our railways are already at full capacity.
Not fully loaded, but there is 8t in the back. 6x2 mid-lift Volvo. Automatic.

I passed my test this morning and with no minor faults at all :D
Jdsk
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Re: Interesting perspective from artic lorry driving

Post by Jdsk »

Congratulations.

Jonathan
Jon in Sweden
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Re: Interesting perspective from artic lorry driving

Post by Jon in Sweden »

Jdsk wrote: 27 Jun 2022, 10:59am Congratulations.

Jonathan
Thank you sir! 8)
reohn2
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Re: Interesting perspective from artic lorry driving

Post by reohn2 »

Jdsk wrote: 27 Jun 2022, 10:59am Congratulations.

Jonathan
+1
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thirdcrank
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Re: Interesting perspective from artic lorry driving

Post by thirdcrank »

PedallingSquares wrote: 27 Jun 2022, 10:42am
mattsccm wrote: 26 Jun 2022, 1:06pm I guess that like many here I am not greatly in sympathy.
My overidng belief is that if a vehicle cannot stay within their own section of road then they shoud not be there. Lorries going wide for sharp bends is my pet hate.
Please explain how you expect them to make the turn without doing so?
They are better nowadays due to the help of rear wheel turning but at 16m-ish long what do you expect?
Buses do the same yet they are loved on cycling forums as they are public transport :roll:
My pet hate is car drivers in tiny little cars that indicate left then swing out to the right before turning left.I’ve also seen bikers and cyclists do this!?Why?
Re the problems faced by the drivers of large vehicles turning at junctions, an appeal court judgment about this prompted a thread in 2017

viewtopic.php?p=1101861#p1101861

The judgment itself makes interesting reading

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/79.html

Bear in mind that most of that involves the appeal judge reviewing - and confirming - the approach taken by the trial judge. It's worth noting the extent of the reliance on the relevant parts of the HC which in the latest 2022 version is even stronger. This bit at the end of the judgment seems particularly important in the context of the current thread
I consider that whilst the judge had found that both parties were at fault in the respects identified by the judge, it was appropriate for the him to take into account the causative potency of the HGV, given the likelihood of very serious injury to a cyclist in the event of a collision. Although (defence counsel) sought to discount this on the basis of the low speed of the HGV, I consider that the judge was entitled to find that it was potentially a very dangerous machine. Its size and bulk were such that in the event of collision it constituted a very serious danger to a person in the position of the claimant. I therefore see no basis for interfering with the judge's assessment, and, for the reasons given, would dismiss this aspect of the appeal.
Bear in mind that that the rider's injuries were so serious she could not take part in the trial, and her award of damages was reduced by 30% for contributory negligence.
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PedallingSquares
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Re: Interesting perspective from artic lorry driving

Post by PedallingSquares »

Black and white for me.
You undertake a left turning vehicle which is indicating left then you are 100% to blame.If an HGV is stationary at lights straddling 2 lanes it is obviously turning left.If you do not know this then you shouldn't be on the road.If you still decide to cycle up to the lights thinking you can beat it before it turns then not only are you 100% to blame but you also deserve a Darwin award.
How stupid are people,really?!
That is how long vehicles have to position themselves to make a left turn.My gripe is with car drivers,bikers and cyclists who swing out right before turning left.There is absolutely no reason or need to do it.
Jdsk
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Re: Interesting perspective from artic lorry driving

Post by Jdsk »

PedallingSquares wrote: 27 Jun 2022, 2:00pmMy gripe is with car drivers,bikers and cyclists who swing out right before turning left.There is absolutely no reason or need to do it.
I suggested a possible reason upthread.

Jonathan
Pebble
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Re: Interesting perspective from artic lorry driving

Post by Pebble »

mattsccm wrote: 26 Jun 2022, 1:06pm I guess that like many here I am not greatly in sympathy.
My overidng belief is that if a vehicle cannot stay within their own section of road then they shoud not be there. Lorries going wide for sharp bends is my pet hate.
I care not one toss about the need to do a job.
My only exception to this rule will be tractors.
Agriculture takes precedent over virtually everything in my book and most definitely over recreation seekers.
If there is one group I entirely detest on the roads it is the agric stuff. Other than a car licence there is no qualification or training to be running at 25ton (or is it 32t) gross pulling a 40 foot trailer at 40 mph. I see it all the time round here, teenagers driving vehicles the size of artics playing with their phones as they belt along as fast as they can go, often with no lights or plates. I get off the bike and off the road when I see them coming.

It is just crazy, you have a 17 year old pulling a trailer the size of a house on narrow country roads, but that same lad would not be allowed to pull a 2 wheel box behind his own car. Farmers just seem to be able to do what ever they like. They are forever loosing the giant round hay bails at harvest time, police couldn't care less - if a wagon driver did something like that it iwould be massive fines and potentially loss of vocational licence.
bluespeeder
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Re: Interesting perspective from artic lorry driving

Post by bluespeeder »

Pebble wrote: 27 Jun 2022, 3:20pm
mattsccm wrote: 26 Jun 2022, 1:06pm I guess that like many here I am not greatly in sympathy.
My overidng belief is that if a vehicle cannot stay within their own section of road then they shoud not be there. Lorries going wide for sharp bends is my pet hate.
I care not one toss about the need to do a job.
My only exception to this rule will be tractors.
Agriculture takes precedent over virtually everything in my book and most definitely over recreation seekers.
If there is one group I entirely detest on the roads it is the agric stuff. Other than a car licence there is no qualification or training to be running at 25ton (or is it 32t) gross pulling a 40 foot trailer at 40 mph. I see it all the time round here, teenagers driving vehicles the size of artics playing with their phones as they belt along as fast as they can go, often with no lights or plates. I get off the bike and off the road when I see them coming.

It is just crazy, you have a 17 year old pulling a trailer the size of a house on narrow country roads, but that same lad would not be allowed to pull a 2 wheel box behind his own car. Farmers just seem to be able to do what ever they like. They are forever loosing the giant round hay bails at harvest time, police couldn't care less - if a wagon driver did something like that it iwould be massive fines and potentially loss of vocational licence.
The legal age for tractor driving is 16 which I find scary. This is limited to 2.45m (so about the width of the lanes around here). Trailers are one of my big fears because frequently the driver 'forgets' how long the vehicle is and pulls back in too soon. I wonder how many 16 year olds can judge this safely.
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PedallingSquares
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Re: Interesting perspective from artic lorry driving

Post by PedallingSquares »

bluespeeder wrote: 27 Jun 2022, 3:38pm The legal age for tractor driving is 16 which I find scary. This is limited to 2.45m (so about the width of the lanes around here). Trailers are one of my big fears because frequently the driver 'forgets' how long the vehicle is and pulls back in too soon. I wonder how many 16 year olds can judge this safely.
I'm sure that would depend on how many years they'd been driving tractors on the farm?
A lad I went to school with(70s) was driving their farm machinery from a very young age.That included Land Rovers.By the time he was 16 he was probably as experienced as car drivers twice his age.

We used to holiday on a Farm in the Yorkshire Dales as a lad and the track to the road was 1/2 mile long.My dad used to let me drive the car from the house to the road and back as soon as I could reach the pedals.This would have been when I was 8 or 10.I'd been riding motor bikes 3 or 4 years by then so understood gears and clutch etc.
bluespeeder
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Re: Interesting perspective from artic lorry driving

Post by bluespeeder »

I agree with a lot of what you say, what concerns me is that overtaking requires judgement of relative velocities of both vehicles and the distance available, a skill which most of us pick up behind the wheel of something smaller without a trailer on the back.
I'm sure a lot of youngsters may have experience of overtaking from karting tracks but without a trailer in tow. Maybe we should be encouraging tractor and trailer racing on the farm :D
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PedallingSquares
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Re: Interesting perspective from artic lorry driving

Post by PedallingSquares »

bluespeeder wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 9:27am I agree with a lot of what you say, what concerns me is that overtaking requires judgement of relative velocities of both vehicles and the distance available, a skill which most of us pick up behind the wheel of something smaller without a trailer on the back.
I'm sure a lot of youngsters may have experience of overtaking from karting tracks but without a trailer in tow. Maybe we should be encouraging tractor and trailer racing on the farm :D
You might be onto a winner there!
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Re: Interesting perspective from artic lorry driving

Post by Bmblbzzz »

PedallingSquares wrote: 27 Jun 2022, 2:00pm Black and white for me.
You undertake a left turning vehicle which is indicating left then you are 100% to blame.If an HGV is stationary at lights straddling 2 lanes it is obviously turning left.If you do not know this then you shouldn't be on the road.If you still decide to cycle up to the lights thinking you can beat it before it turns then not only are you 100% to blame but you also deserve a Darwin award.
How stupid are people,really?!
That is how long vehicles have to position themselves to make a left turn.My gripe is with car drivers,bikers and cyclists who swing out right before turning left.There is absolutely no reason or need to do it.
Not necessarily. There are situations where an HGV or even a bus will need two lanes to turn right. If the driver is indicating, then that's a clue, but no indication does not necessarily mean going straight on.
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