Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Nearholmer
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Nearholmer »

Temperature, humidity, wind speed, in any of a million combinations, alter how much heat we loose to the air, so wearing a jacket when it’s warm isn’t always about temperature.

This morning, I was out in the country and it was cool and humid, to a degree where my breath formed ‘smoke’, yet the temperature was c15 degrees.
djnotts
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by djnotts »

"Curiously, I know one or two people who have found that cancer treatment left them less susceptible to cold. I hope your treatment was successful."

In my case could also be worsening copd - low oxygen levels!
"Successful"? Won't know until it isn't! Thank you.
Ayseven
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Ayseven »

A lot of contrarians here. Anybody who thinks he is more invisible wearing hivis than not, is on drugs or something. As a regular car driver, I notice Hivis and flashing lights before anything, and I would certainly have had very close calls with cyclists without them. Anything to be safer, surrounded by tons of metal trying to kill you, is my philosophy, and if it takes a bit of reflective clothing, that looks uncool, so what?
Psamathe
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Psamathe »

Ayseven wrote: 1 Jul 2022, 3:52pm A lot of contrarians here. Anybody who thinks he is more invisible wearing hivis than not, is on drugs or something....
We have mostly oil rape seed fields round me so most of cycling is against a background of bright yellow flowering fields. Such fields are a perfect match for Hi-Viz yellow so you don't have to be "on drugs or something" to be invisible against such a backdrop (bright yellow against a bright yellow background.

You need to look at the environment you are cycling in not blindly accuse others of being daft.

Ian
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Cugel
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Cugel »

Ayseven wrote: 1 Jul 2022, 3:52pm A lot of contrarians here. Anybody who thinks he is more invisible wearing hivis than not, is on drugs or something. As a regular car driver, I notice Hivis and flashing lights before anything, and I would certainly have had very close calls with cyclists without them. Anything to be safer, surrounded by tons of metal trying to kill you, is my philosophy, and if it takes a bit of reflective clothing, that looks uncool, so what?
You haven't read all the posts in this thread, eh? :-)

Now then, you suggest, "Anything to be safer .....". Shurely shome mishtake as this would include not riding a bike, driving a car, going out of the house or staying in it (stairs, kettles, drawers full of sharp knives .....)! As you may recall, life is full of dangers that can't be made safe but can be dealt with in one way or another.

Is hi-viz a method for dealing with some dangers? Of course - but it's no magic coat so one is best trying to understand which situations and their dangers can benefit from hi-viz and which not. Some like a black & white answer on these matters but, as my granddaughter is forever telling me, "I think you'll find it's more complicated than that".

Cugel, more of a flasher than a yellercoat.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
Jdsk
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Jdsk »

Ayseven wrote: 1 Jul 2022, 3:52pmAnything to be safer, surrounded by tons of metal trying to kill you, is my philosophy, and if it takes a bit of reflective clothing, that looks uncool, so what?
I understood that the obvious way: that it means "safer while out riding on public roads". So not riding or using a car instead would be out of scope. Let alone any other whataboutery.

Jonathan
PT1029
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by PT1029 »

I recall seeing a Norfolk(?) Police tweet on a hi viz debate, something on the lines of "What's all this about hi viz making you visible?" with a picture of a blue/flourescent reflective covered police car parked on the edge of a dual carraigway (having presumably pulled over the van parked in front). The back off side was completely stoved in as someone had driven into the back of the police car.
I guess with a lot of drivers, hi viz makes you more visible, some drivers just don't look what ever colour you are.
hoogerbooger
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by hoogerbooger »

Well you can't manage all aspects of safety and sometimes the vehicle behind us is in the hands of R.Scoles.
old fangled
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foxyrider
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by foxyrider »

Hi-viz, head covers, flashing lights - they all have their place but that place isn't neccesarily on a bike, on every ride. I see riders sporting all three riding daytime mid summer on dedicated cycle paths that they have driven to, is it all neccesary? Well they think so, i prefer not to comment.

The suggestion that all cyclists should be dressed in day-glo with lumps of polystyrene on their heads and lit up like the Blackpool Illuminations provides a barrier to participation and does not encourage anyone onto a bike at a time when HP transport is becoming an essential part of transport policy.

Is it sensible to wear kit that makes you stand out from the background? Of course it is but that doesn't neccesarily mean yellow/orange/green hi viz. My winter gear all has reflective panels from the feet up but none is 'hi viz', in the summer i'll be in brightly coloured tops which are more eye catching IMV than another block of bright yellow etc that could be roadsigns, pedestrians, affixed to a HGV etc, etc.

If you think Hi-viz, head covers, flashing lights will keep you safer, go for it, you are entitled to make that choice but don't think you should be able to make that decision for the rest of us.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
Nearholmer
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Nearholmer »

Well, that’s put the straw man firmly in his place.
pwa
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by pwa »

foxyrider wrote: 1 Jul 2022, 9:20pm Hi-viz, head covers, flashing lights - they all have their place but that place isn't neccesarily on a bike, on every ride. I see riders sporting all three riding daytime mid summer on dedicated cycle paths that they have driven to, is it all neccesary? Well they think so, i prefer not to comment.

The suggestion that all cyclists should be dressed in day-glo with lumps of polystyrene on their heads and lit up like the Blackpool Illuminations provides a barrier to participation and does not encourage anyone onto a bike at a time when HP transport is becoming an essential part of transport policy.

Is it sensible to wear kit that makes you stand out from the background? Of course it is but that doesn't neccesarily mean yellow/orange/green hi viz
. My winter gear all has reflective panels from the feet up but none is 'hi viz', in the summer i'll be in brightly coloured tops which are more eye catching IMV than another block of bright yellow etc that could be roadsigns, pedestrians, affixed to a HGV etc, etc.

If you think Hi-viz, head covers, flashing lights will keep you safer, go for it, you are entitled to make that choice but don't think you should be able to make that decision for the rest of us.
My bold.
I think terminology can get in the way here. You are interpreting hi-viz as a specific thing, basically bright yellow (or orange), but some people are a bit more casual about the phrase and mean anything bright and eye-catching.

I believe blocky clothing in a bright shade works well in most conditions. I avoid darker shades and a broken appearance, because in other contexts that is referred to as camouflage.
Airsporter1st
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Airsporter1st »

pwa wrote: 2 Jul 2022, 7:03am
foxyrider wrote: 1 Jul 2022, 9:20pm Hi-viz, head covers, flashing lights - they all have their place but that place isn't neccesarily on a bike, on every ride. I see riders sporting all three riding daytime mid summer on dedicated cycle paths that they have driven to, is it all neccesary? Well they think so, i prefer not to comment.

The suggestion that all cyclists should be dressed in day-glo with lumps of polystyrene on their heads and lit up like the Blackpool Illuminations provides a barrier to participation and does not encourage anyone onto a bike at a time when HP transport is becoming an essential part of transport policy.

Is it sensible to wear kit that makes you stand out from the background? Of course it is but that doesn't neccesarily mean yellow/orange/green hi viz
. My winter gear all has reflective panels from the feet up but none is 'hi viz', in the summer i'll be in brightly coloured tops which are more eye catching IMV than another block of bright yellow etc that could be roadsigns, pedestrians, affixed to a HGV etc, etc.

If you think Hi-viz, head covers, flashing lights will keep you safer, go for it, you are entitled to make that choice but don't think you should be able to make that decision for the rest of us.
My bold.
I think terminology can get in the way here. You are interpreting hi-viz as a specific thing, basically bright yellow (or orange), but some people are a bit more casual about the phrase and mean anything bright and eye-catching.

I believe blocky clothing in a bright shade works well in most conditions. I avoid darker shades and a broken appearance, because in other contexts that is referred to as camouflage.

That one word sums it all up.
Jdsk
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Jdsk »

After the merger of threads has anyone referred to the evidence, such as it is... ?

Jonathan
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Chris Jeggo
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Chris Jeggo »

pwa wrote: 2 Jul 2022, 7:03am I think terminology can get in the way here. You are interpreting hi-viz as a specific thing, basically bright yellow (or orange), but some people are a bit more casual about the phrase and mean anything bright and eye-catching.
That bright yellow is also called 'fluorescent yellow'. I believe the bright orange, pale green and pink dyes often seen are also fluorescent, which means that the dye absorbs ultra-violet light and re-transmits the energy in the visible band, hence the brightness.
I understand hi-viz to mean garments that combine fluorescent dyes for day-time visibility with retro-reflective elements for night-time visibility.
Psamathe
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Psamathe »

pwa wrote: 2 Jul 2022, 7:03am ...interpreting hi-viz as a specific thing, basically bright yellow (or orange)...
Maybe a bit off-topic but I was once told (by a cycle manufacturer) that orange can present some issues for some people with a not uncommon sight condition (and the individual suffered it and it meant orange was not clearly seen and I can't remember if he said colour blind or something else).

My question was in realtion to a hi-viz item they provide in yellow (not any help round me with oil rape seed) and I was aking if they could also add a hi-viz orange to their product range and reply (which I didn't keep) raised the consideration.

I cannot dispute the answer but also wondered about the increasingly common use of orange suits by so many employees in public spaces.

Ian
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