Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

[biketips666]

We all tune out the Hi-Viz of roadworkers, delivery personnel, surveyors and those similarly clad people we do see but assess as unimportant.

"We"?

[pwa]

Mrs Syd was hit from behind by a driver two days ago.

From video the driver is seen following her out of the car park, leaving her plenty of room, and stopping behind her at the junction, where both were turning right.

Mrs Syd crossed the westbound lanes and was stationary in the central sanctuary waiting on a gap in eastbound traffic to continue on her way.

It was as this point the driver obviously forgot she was there, and was looking elsewhere, as he crossed into the central sanctuary himself and struck her.

She was appropriately visible for the conditions and time of day.

You are only visible if someone is looking at you, and paying attention.

We are all glad Mrs Syd came out of that okay. That collision is a type I understand well, because I nearly did the same sort of thing when I was a young driver, a good number of decades ago. Looking to one side for traffic, thinking the vehicle immediately in front has moved off when it hasn't. I suspect I learned to make more use of what is going on in my peripheral vision, because I haven't made that mistake since..

But that is all to do with forgetting the vehicle in front has not moved away, and not looking to check that is correct. It isn't the sort of error that hi viz / bright clothing is meant to deal with. Just because it won't prevent that sort of mistake, where the driver's gaze is elsewhere, does not mean it won't help in some instances where the driver is looking in your direction.

[mattheus]

But that is all to do with forgetting the vehicle in front has not moved away, and not looking to check that is correct. It isn't the sort of error that hi viz / bright clothing is meant to deal with. Just because it won't prevent that sort of mistake, where the driver's gaze is elsewhere, does not mean it won't help in some instances where the driver is looking in your direction.

All the statistics and studies suggest that driver inattention, or impatience [speeding], or just "error" make up the causes of collisions and deaths.

Studies on Hi-Viz actually show it makes yoMORE at risk! So if there is a benefit, it's too small to show up in the numbers.

So I propose that your "some instances" is actually "hardly ever. At all."

[[XAP]Bob]

A person is visible.

Whether or not a motorist admits to seeing you is generally nothing to do with what you were wearing at all. I am of course assuming correct lighting when required (ie after sunset)

[Jdsk]

Studies on Hi-Viz actually show it makes yoMORE at risk!

Which are the best studies, please?

Thanks

Jonathan

[Psamathe]

First CTC membership 50+ years ago, prior to purchase of first car. Now, infirmity and longer distances normal in rural Scotland leads to more car use without ever ceasing to be aware of bikes and to use the bike near home. Reviews and cycling commentary are always enjoyable to read. I would however like to see more concentration on everyone being easily able to see and avoid cyclists. We live on the NCN Route 1, part of the 'old' LEJOG route. Even in cooler months roads present big numbers of cyclists and while wife and I make big efforts wear bright, visible, clothing it is very noticeable how well-dressed but invisible so many cyclists are.

Small roads with tight curves do not always allow drivers much advance notice of cyclists ahead. Drivers who are cyclists know to look way out ahead for signs of 'other' road users. Really nice dark cycling clothing does not help.

Please, when writing, formulate believable advice about needing to wear visibility when cycling.

Ian Walker's research is raised periodically but as a new member you may not be aware and may find it interesting https://researchportal.bath.ac.uk/en/pu ... ers-overta. If you don't have access to the publications, https://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-11- ... avior.html is an article describing the research.

Ian

[mjr]

I often groan when I see folk on bikes dressed from head to toe in black. They blend in perfectly against backgrounds of hedges or trees, its just so unecessary.
SMIDSY.... In some countries some form of high vis is compulsary. But here, fashion rules....Black looks cool and hides fat.

Are you always such a fan of nanny state big government restriction of personal choice and freedom or just when people's choices remind you of your poor eyesight?

[Ron]

Small roads with tight curves do not always allow drivers much advance notice of cyclists ahead.

We cannot blame the roads.
It is the duty of the driver to observe road conditions ahead which may require action to safeguard other road users.This would include slowing down for "tight curves" in order to give sufficient space to avoid any obstruction which may be hidden by the curve.
The wearingof hi-viz by the cyclist will not offer any protection if the driver has chosen to drive at a speed which fails to allow sufficient length of clear road to provide braking distance.
A reduction in speed limits on rural roads would be a more effective safety measure than having cyclists wear hi-viz.

[bohrsatom]

This is a dreadful thread. Should anyone have trouble driving to the conditions, reducing their speed when visibility is poor due to a windy road, I suggest they leave their car at home and take a taxi instead.

Hope Mrs Syd is OK.

[millimole]

This is the first and only post by the original poster. Are they trolling us? I await their next post on helmets!

The Surrey Roads Policing Unit have tweeted in the past that they do not believe hivis to be effective for cyclists (no twitter at the moment, so I can't quote directly).
As a driver, motorcyclist & cyclist I'd tend to agree that most hivis clothing has little utility in most situations - if a distracted driver isn't looking then they won't see you.

Having said that, when cycling I make myself a hypocrite by using a very bright rear light with a 'disrupted' flash pattern (ie the flash is irregular and unpredictable).

[djnotts]

Probably the most beneficial aspect of hi-vis is the higher damages awarded to those injured by motor vehicles having done their best to alert drivers to their presence. Like wearing a lid.

[al_yrpal]

More accidents on folk who wear high vis?Obviously because all sensible road workers wear hi vis and are more at risk because of where they work. Most Mamils wear sensible bright clothing. That sometimes looks daft but at least they can be seen easily.
On a visit to East Anglia in a group of 8 people of various ages I, surprisingly at 77, was the top Hare spotter. Great hunting eyesight...

Al

[Jdsk]

Any assertion that a given intervention can't make a difference because there are other factors isn't consistent with the Swiss Cheese model. In a particular situation it just might a difference that really matters.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model

Jonathan

PS: Humans pick up information about the outside world from their peripheral vision as well as from "where they are looking".

[cycle tramp]

Mrs Syd was hit from behind by a driver two days ago.

From video the driver is seen following her out of the car park, leaving her plenty of room, and stopping behind her at the junction, where both were turning right.

Mrs Syd crossed the westbound lanes and was stationary in the central sanctuary waiting on a gap in eastbound traffic to continue on her way.

It was as this point the driver obviously forgot she was there, and was looking elsewhere, as he crossed into the central sanctuary himself and struck her.

She was appropriately visible for the conditions and time of day.

You are only visible if someone is looking at you, and paying attention.

[Inappropriate swear words relating to the driver, a small cactus and various verbs removed]
I am sorry to read the news, I hope that Mrs Syd is well and that the appropriate action - driving without due care and attention? Dangerous driving? has been levied against the driver concerned.

[cycle tramp]

Given the age of the car drivers in my area and in light that 1 in 10 people driving may fail the driving sight test (which wasn't that stringent to begin with) I do wear hi vis.
However what I believe helps other road users see me, is not the hi vis, but because I take the same position in the road as that of a motor scooter, which is some three to four feet from the edge of the road. By doing so I believe that my presence has less chance of being lost against any background and can be seen more easily at junctions.
I also ride a bicycle which is fairly up right, possibly giving me greater presence (and worse aerodynamics) than if I was riding with dropped 'bars.
However, I also tend not to hold the traffic up, and will pull into a field gate or driveway if its impossible for any driver to overtake me safely...
..whilst my front wheel is moderately stout, I think the 4x4 which has been patiently waiting behind me has a better chance of stopping the boy racer which may fling themselves towards us, around the next blind bend...