Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

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mjr
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by mjr »

pwa wrote: 5 Jul 2022, 3:34pm But buying a top in eye-catching colours isn't buying something extra. It is buying a top that you were going to buy anyway, but choosing one colour in preference to another. Wearing a yellow top is as easy as wearing a blue top. The helmet, yes, is an additional purchase, but a relatively infrequent one.
Not exactly: I'd never buy that shade of yellow (chartreuse yellow), nor a garment that only lasts 30 washes according to its maker, nor a fabric that irritates my skin and dumps synthetic microfibres into the water every wash. Even if they're not detrimental to road safety, contrary to my experience, those simple facts should mean almost no one who considers them would choose to buy such bad clothing.

Plastic cycle helmets are far worse in this way, as covered in other topics.
There have been several incidents in my region in recent years in which drivers have ploughed into a horse, so I'd be using the dayglo if I were riding a horse on the roads. I'd still be riding on the lanes though.
So were only riders without dayglow hit? Or is the common factor crap drivers who should be removed from the roads ASAP rather than enabled by making key things dayglow?
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mjr
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by mjr »

pwa wrote: 5 Jul 2022, 7:57pm Hedges are the norm around here. We have a few farms locally that often grow rapeseed, but all have hedges between the fields and the roads. Which region do you live in, if you don't mind me asking.
Psamathe is in crop central East Anglia, I hope he won't mind me saying. Roads are often not farm boundaries, so we have vast fields of canola without roadside hedges around here. One example is on the exit from my small village to the nearest shop selling coop products, so I ride by it often.
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by pwa »

mjr wrote: 6 Jul 2022, 1:23pm
There have been several incidents in my region in recent years in which drivers have ploughed into a horse, so I'd be using the dayglo if I were riding a horse on the roads. I'd still be riding on the lanes though.
So were only riders without dayglow hit? Or is the common factor crap drivers who should be removed from the roads ASAP rather than enabled by making key things dayglow?
The common factor, as you say, was crap drivers going too fast around bends on country lanes. If I rode horses I would be able to do virtually nothing about that, so I would do the only little thing I could do, which is to put some yellow on me and the horse just in case it made a difference when I met a numpty on the road. That wouldn't enable bad driving. The bad driving is happening anyway.
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by pwa »

mjr wrote: 6 Jul 2022, 1:30pm
pwa wrote: 5 Jul 2022, 7:57pm Hedges are the norm around here. We have a few farms locally that often grow rapeseed, but all have hedges between the fields and the roads. Which region do you live in, if you don't mind me asking.
Psamathe is in crop central East Anglia, I hope he won't mind me saying. Roads are often not farm boundaries, so we have vast fields of canola without roadside hedges around here. One example is on the exit from my small village to the nearest shop selling coop products, so I ride by it often.
Different conditions to my own then. Your situation sounds a bit like that crop dusting scene from North by Northwest, where the bloke runs from the dusty road and straight into a maize crop without a hedge or fence in sight.
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Vorpal »

mjr wrote: 6 Jul 2022, 1:30pm
pwa wrote: 5 Jul 2022, 7:57pm Hedges are the norm around here. We have a few farms locally that often grow rapeseed, but all have hedges between the fields and the roads. Which region do you live in, if you don't mind me asking.
Psamathe is in crop central East Anglia, I hope he won't mind me saying. Roads are often not farm boundaries, so we have vast fields of canola without roadside hedges around here. One example is on the exit from my small village to the nearest shop selling coop products, so I ride by it often.
I don't recall where Psamathe lives (though IIRC, he has referred to it on the forum before), but I can verify that northern Essex and central and western Suffolk and Norfolk often have oil seed rape and other crops right up to, or within inches of the road. There are hedges in some places, but many were taken out as farms combined through the centuries, and more recently due to illnesses in hedgerows which commonly had elm in them, or because hedges at field borders interfered with the efficient operation of the equipment which has increased in size.

Imagine https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8573992 ... 312!8i6656 with blooming oil seed rape planted on both side of the road.

If there is any margin between road & field, it's normally because it is needed for drainage. The soil is chalky clay, deposited by glaciers, so drainage is important, and is aided by hedges and small woodlands. But not generally located where it can be ploughed & planted.
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Psamathe »

Vorpal wrote: 6 Jul 2022, 3:04pm
mjr wrote: 6 Jul 2022, 1:30pm
pwa wrote: 5 Jul 2022, 7:57pm Hedges are the norm around here. We have a few farms locally that often grow rapeseed, but all have hedges between the fields and the roads. Which region do you live in, if you don't mind me asking.
Psamathe is in crop central East Anglia, I hope he won't mind me saying. Roads are often not farm boundaries, so we have vast fields of canola without roadside hedges around here. One example is on the exit from my small village to the nearest shop selling coop products, so I ride by it often.
I don't recall where Psamathe lives ...
South Norfolk. So loads of hi-vis crops (which then turn a golden colour not too dissimilar to the hi-viz flags/waistcoats) and few hedges between road and crop (as Vorpal says, crop pretty well up to road).

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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by ChrisP100 »

I was positioned here on Tuesday afternoon just gone, stationary and waiting to turn right. There was traffic coming from right and left and there was a vehicle at the junction waiting to turn right. When the traffic cleared the driver at the junction set off and it was only for the the fact I was quick off the mark that they didn't hit me. They just hadn't even registered I was there, despite my white helmet, bright blue top and being directly in front of them 12ft away.
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Vorpal »

Psamathe wrote: 6 Jul 2022, 5:02pm South Norfolk. So loads of hi-vis crops (which then turn a golden colour not too dissimilar to the hi-viz flags/waistcoats) and few hedges between road and crop (as Vorpal says, crop pretty well up to road).

Ian
Even when they don't crop right up to the road, there may very well be only a small & hedge-free drainage area for a foot or two next to the road, so still no colour break from the oil seed rape.
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Pebble »

I thought it was a joke when someone suggested not wearing hi-viz in case it clashed with a farmers field.

Unless you are riding your bike in the middle of a field of Oil Seed Rape in late April, then I would think bright yellow is the best highly visible colours to wear when riding during the day especially when the weather is dull. Or at least my eyes pick up on this colour the fastest.

Only prob I see with hi-viz yellow is that it attracts insects, so for the summer months I go for red. And on bright clear days I doubt what you wear will make much difference. Biggest dangers I think of in summer months in going under the shadow of trees with following drivers likely to be wearing shades.
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Stevek76 »

mjr wrote: 6 Jul 2022, 1:23pm
pwa wrote: 5 Jul 2022, 3:34pm But buying a top in eye-catching colours isn't buying something extra. It is buying a top that you were going to buy anyway, but choosing one colour in preference to another. Wearing a yellow top is as easy as wearing a blue top. The helmet, yes, is an additional purchase, but a relatively infrequent one.
Not exactly: I'd never buy that shade of yellow (chartreuse yellow), nor a garment that only lasts 30 washes according to its maker, nor a fabric that irritates my skin and dumps synthetic microfibres into the water every wash. Even if they're not detrimental to road safety, contrary to my experience, those simple facts should mean almost no one who considers them would choose to buy such bad clothing.
Also that sort of thing is only possible if cycling for leisure purposes. When cycling for transport and 'dressing for the destination' switching up colours is very much 'extra'.
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Stevek76 »

Pebble wrote: 7 Jul 2022, 10:00am Unless you are riding your bike in the middle of a field of Oil Seed Rape in late April, then I would think bright yellow is the best highly visible colours to wear when riding during the day especially when the weather is dull. Or at least my eyes pick up on this colour the fastest.
It's not just rape fields, quite a bit of foliage including some hedgerows can look a similar bright green/yellow colour under direct sunshine. One of the reasons rail workers have stuck with orange is not just because of avoiding confusion with signal colours but it stands out better in rural environments.
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by foxyrider »

Pebble wrote: 7 Jul 2022, 10:00am

Unless you are riding your bike in the middle of a field of Oil Seed Rape in late April, then I would think bright yellow is the best highly visible colours to wear when riding during the day especially when the weather is dull. Or at least my eyes pick up on this colour the fastest.

What about after April? There is flowering Rape in the fields until September in many parts of the country.
Convention? what's that then?
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Psamathe »

foxyrider wrote: 7 Jul 2022, 9:31pm
Pebble wrote: 7 Jul 2022, 10:00am

Unless you are riding your bike in the middle of a field of Oil Seed Rape in late April, then I would think bright yellow is the best highly visible colours to wear when riding during the day especially when the weather is dull. Or at least my eyes pick up on this colour the fastest.

What about after April? There is flowering Rape in the fields until September in many parts of the country.
It's not just rape seed in flower. As the crop goes golden so hi-viz yellow does not stand out as well. Same applies to grass crops. The golden is not as bad as rape seed flowering but still not much contrast.

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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Pebble »

Don't think I have seen Rape flowering after mid may, and it doesnt go golden.

I'm curious of these other bright yellow coloured crops that could be confused with the bright yellow cyclists wear - any photos of such crops flowering at the moment ?
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by TrevA »

If you want to wear Hi Viz then I think bright Orange (as worn by railway workers) stands out better than yellow. Orange doesn’t occur in nature in Britain, so will stand out against any background. I have a couple of Hi Viz Orange tops, mainly used for commuting, so I don’t often wear them now I’ve retired. You almost have to wear sunglasses whilst wearing them.
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