Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: SAFETY, Visibility

Post by Bmblbzzz »

mjr wrote: 16 Aug 2021, 1:22pm
thirdcrank wrote: 14 Aug 2021, 11:10am Putting it at it's very least, hi-viz togs make SMIDSY that bit less credible.
Not when "hi-viz togs" are widely known as urban camouflage.
But they are evidence of "doing something" so get you compo.
MartinC
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Re: SAFETY, Visibility

Post by MartinC »

Black cars. Definition of Safety and visibility are certainly part of the answer. Normal rules of grammar apply so "they" are the victims, whether they need to be actually harmed or merely intimidated is moot though so their participation is moot too.

Perhaps the question was a bit sloppy, so why doesn't the Highway code advise that cars be in bright colours? :)
mattheus
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Re: SAFETY, Visibility

Post by mattheus »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 16 Aug 2021, 2:54pm
mjr wrote: 16 Aug 2021, 1:22pm
thirdcrank wrote: 14 Aug 2021, 11:10am Putting it at it's very least, hi-viz togs make SMIDSY that bit less credible.
Not when "hi-viz togs" are widely known as urban camouflage.
But they are evidence of "doing something" so get you compo.
Do they?

I was SMIDSYed in broad daylight - no Hi-viz, no h*lmet.
Driver was prosecuted, I got full compo paid out.

I seem to quote this incident a lot, because people state assumptions about road safety (and legal action) without any actual experience ...
Bmblbzzz
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Re: SAFETY, Visibility

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Okay, they are sometimes worn by individuals and commonly given by councils, utilities, engineers and other employers to their staff, on the grounds that they can then claim to have taken steps to ensure safety.
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Tigerbiten
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Re: SAFETY, Visibility

Post by Tigerbiten »

mattheus wrote: 16 Aug 2021, 4:34pm
Bmblbzzz wrote: 16 Aug 2021, 2:54pm
mjr wrote: 16 Aug 2021, 1:22pm Not when "hi-viz togs" are widely known as urban camouflage.
But they are evidence of "doing something" so get you compo.
Do they?

I was SMIDSYed in broad daylight - no Hi-viz, no h*lmet.
Driver was prosecuted, I got full compo paid out.

I seem to quote this incident a lot, because people state assumptions about road safety (and legal action) without any actual experience ...
I don't think it come into a case of when you're in the right and the driver does something silly to cause the accident.
In it more comes into a case when you're doing something silly like going up the inside of traffic and get left hooked.
Then it's much more 50-50 as to who is at fault, the driver "should" have looked but "should" you have been going up the inside in the first place ??
Then the lack of ticked boxes may possibly affect your compensation as the other side has a much better argument against you.

Luck ............ :D
Gerry557
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Re: SAFETY, Visibility

Post by Gerry557 »

Noticing cyclists or other non car users for that matter often is more about movement and catching the eye so as to gain your focus, normally in your peripheral vision.

A flashing light, I find, is more noticeable than a steady one and says to me anyway, to expect a cyclist ahead.

I also think drivers attitudes play a big part. Even when they have seen you, you are degraded to some sort of target rather then a vulnerable road user.
Vorpal
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Re: SAFETY, Visibility

Post by Vorpal »

Tigerbiten wrote: 16 Aug 2021, 5:10pm In it more comes into a case when you're doing something silly like going up the inside of traffic and get left hooked.
Then it's much more 50-50 as to who is at fault, the driver "should" have looked but "should" you have been going up the inside in the first place ??
Then the lack of ticked boxes may possibly affect your compensation as the other side has a much better argument against you.
I guess that's why they put cycle lanes there, then.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
mattheus
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Re: SAFETY, Visibility

Post by mattheus »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 16 Aug 2021, 4:55pm Okay, they are sometimes worn by individuals and commonly given by councils, utilities, engineers and other employers to their staff, on the grounds that they can then claim to have taken steps to ensure safety.
[My bold]

Yes.
Nearholmer
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Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Nearholmer »

Personally I think …….. hivis do more harm than good,
I was intrigued by this point made in another thread.

I’m struggling to understand how high visibility clothing can do more harm than good, or maybe the poster was referring specifically to over-vests, which I never use because they are flappy, tangly things.

Thoughts?
Jdsk
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Jdsk »

That view has come up many times, either as it can't reduce harm to cyclists or that it doesn't reduce harm to cyclists.

Lots in the archives, but of course you have to search with both an s and a z in there.

With your background it probably won't take long for you to understand the nature of the discussion.

Jonathan
Airsporter1st
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Airsporter1st »

Nearholmer wrote: 26 Jun 2022, 10:41am
Personally I think …….. hivis do more harm than good,
I was intrigued by this point made in another thread.

I’m struggling to understand how high visibility clothing can do more harm than good, or maybe the poster was referring specifically to over-vests, which I never use because they are flappy, tangly things.

Thoughts?
I don't know what was in the mind of the member quoted, but I would guess there are several ways where it might be considered harmful:

If drivers become used to seeing the majority in high-vis, they may become 'blind' to those who are not.

If it becomes the 'norm' like helmets, there may be a risk of being accused of contributory negligence in the event of a collision.

Risk compensation?
Psamathe
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Psamathe »

Around where I cycle, yellow hi-viz is perfect camouflage against a field of flowering oild rape seed - and we have a lot of fields of oil rape seed. Stand out better wearing something contrasting (like black?).

And once the oil rape seed flowers have ended you can fight off the swarms of (harmless) pollen beetle the hi-viz will attract. Supermarket home delivery the other day was funny as driver got out of cab in hi-viz waistcoat and within seconds was waving his arms in the air trying to rid himself of the swarms of pollen beetle (I relented and told him it was the hi-viz which he quickly took off, shook and threw in the cab and was then fine and was then left alone by he swarms).

Ian
thirdcrank
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by thirdcrank »

Nearholmer wrote: 26 Jun 2022, 10:41am
Personally I think …….. hivis do more harm than good,
I was intrigued by this point made in another thread.

I’m struggling to understand how high visibility clothing can do more harm than good, or maybe the poster was referring specifically to over-vests, which I never use because they are flappy, tangly things.

Thoughts?
My own thoughts are that this would have been better as a continuation of that other thread, or at the least a link to it.
Nearholmer
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Nearholmer »

Interesting.

My own take (possibly born of a lifetime inThe rail industry) is that (a) I have to wear clothes for warmth and decency, (b) the top half might as well be the brightest orange possible, because it’s hard to miss in any environment.
Airsporter1st
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Re: Can hi-vis clothing do harm?

Post by Airsporter1st »

Nearholmer wrote: 26 Jun 2022, 11:14am Interesting.

My own take (possibly born of a lifetime inThe rail industry) is that (a) I have to wear clothes for warmth and decency, (b) the top half might as well be the brightest orange possible, because it’s hard to miss in any environment.
Easy to miss if everyone is wearing it! :lol:

I’m only half-serious, of course. I wear it all the time in the offshore industry and would certainly prefer to have it on if I fall overboard or I am fortunate enough to survive a chopper ditching.
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