SON hub choice question

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PT1029
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SON hub choice question

Post by PT1029 »

Looking at new whelels for a new bike. Ideally silver hubs, but might have to lump it with black hubs.
Rear hub (Rohloff) is only available in bolt fitting disc.

I want a SON front dynamo hub due to its reliability/less dyno vibration. To save elbow grease, I'd want silver anodized, not silver polished.
Silver polish available in 6 bolts fitting and center lock fitting.
Silver anodized only available in centre lock fitting.
I assume the centre lock will thus be the only option for a silver anodized hub, though I'd prefer the 6 bolts option, as this would save taking a lockring tool on tour.

Black available in 6 bolt or centre lock of course....!.
Forks will be through axle (unless I can persuade the builder otherwise, though he makes the technical point of through axles being better for braking (more rigid/less twisting etc that 9mm threaded axle).
I think I have given my answer (center lock silver of 6 bolt black), but someone might have some other suggestion.
bgnukem
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Re: SON hub choice question

Post by bgnukem »

Use a centre-lock to 6-bolt adaptor?
PH
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Re: SON hub choice question

Post by PH »

bgnukem beat me to it. I run a Shimano dynamo with an adapter, there's no disadvantage.

Sounds like it's going to be my sort of bike, look forward to hearing more. I prefer polished silver, though Rohloff don't offer that anymore, I know it's a little work (An hour every couple of years) but my eighteen year old Rohloff and SON polish up like new, no anodized hubs the same age will look as shiny.
When you come to spec the rear rotor, be aware that not all versions allow easy access to the hub torx screws that should be checked periodically. I use this Hope one that does:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brakes/thor ... ub-160-mm/
slowster
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Re: SON hub choice question

Post by slowster »

Is your reasoning that you want to be able to remove the disc in the event of needing to replace a broken spoke while on tour? If that is important to you, you could have the front forks built to take 110mm OLN (MTB 'Boost' standard) 15mm thru-axle hubs, instead of road standard 100mm/12mm*. Son make a silver anodised six bolt 110mm / 15mm hub, and the elimination of wheel dish should also reduce the likelihood of spoke breakage.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/dynamos/32- ... -anodised/

However, all these hubs are 32 hole. For heavy loaded touring I would sacrifice aesthetic preference and choose a (black) 36 hole hub.

* To complicate matters, I see Son also make 110mm hubs for 12mm thru-axles and 100mm hubs for 15mm thru-axles.
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freiston
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Re: SON hub choice question

Post by freiston »

Not wanting to detract from the question but the rationale behind it jarred with me - I find polished "silver colour" alloy parts require next to no elbow grease whereas my texture-finished cranks will not come clean - they just look grubbier as time goes on. Any shiny anodised products I've had look tatty with age too - especially coloured finishes. All of my polished alloy components look good after a quick wipe with a rag (I like mine to be a bit oily/WD40/GT85) - the muck just lifts off - and they don't look bad between wipes either (the exception being my cheap stem spacers - they lost their shine).
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
PT1029
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Re: SON hub choice question

Post by PT1029 »

Thanks for the replies.
I was hoping for 6 bolt. If some of the bolts needed tightening or a spoke needs replacing (unlikely, probably), I just need an allen or torx key rather a cassette lock ring took plus sizable(ish) spanner when on tour.

Re Rohloff/Hope disc access to Rohloff shell bolts. Thanks, I was aware of that from Hope's blurb when looking something else up previously.
32 or 36? Ideally 36 sounds best but
36 Rohloff is special order
Every thing is (seems to be) going to 32, will decent 36 hole rims be hard to find in few years? (Scope for a separate thread discussion....
I think there was a thread on 26" rims availability, and 32 vs 36 availability was mentioned)
I accept Rohloff's "Our dishless 32 is better than a dished 36". I read of 32 hole Rohloffs being used for tandem camping without issue, and I have camped on 32's many years ago (spokes survived, eventually (but not on tour) the rear (Specialized) rim cracked at the drive side spoke holes. Probably less of a risk with disc rims, as they are thicker around the spoke holes.
Now Rohloff use flange rings, 32 seems a more reliable prospect than previously (I have a photo sent by a friend taken in his Thailand hotel room, of his now empty hub shell as he put the innerds into an uncracked new shell).

I was hoping for anodized as the bike will be a tourer plus poor weather Sunday bike (so I can eek out my 9s gearing and avoid the ghastly/built in obsolesence of 10+ speeds (even 9 is falling down the food chain).
As a poor weather Sunday bike, I was hoping for anodized as a resistance to salt corrosion - not only cosmetic, but also structural around the stressed spoke holes.
Valid point on cleaning anodizing. I guess it depends on the silver anodized finish.
Some anodizing is lovely and smooth and just wipes clean - 1990's Mavic rims, Cinelli stems, TA cranks (well, front at least), 1990's anodized Shimano cranks all wiped clean.
Modern components often seem to have a rough finish so they never clean up fully, Rhyde rims come to mind, along with Mavic Open sport/open pro ims, I am sure there are plenty of other examples.
Looking at the JSJ website, the silver anodized SON hubs look a bit matt/less reflective (so harder to clean?), and the black anodized ones look a bit shinier/smoother (so easier to clean?).
So question.
Does anyone out there have a silver anodized SON dynamo hub? Of so, is it a nice smooth wipe clean finish, or a slightly matt hard to clean finish?
How well does the anodizing (silver or black) stay on? It should be fairly good as it is part of the metal. I ask because coated components (different process/finish I know) often end up look tatty as corrosion lifts off the finish at edges and spoke holes.
slowster
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Re: SON hub choice question

Post by slowster »

PT1029 wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 6:09pm 32 or 36? Ideally 36 sounds best but
36 Rohloff is special order
Every thing is (seems to be) going to 32, will decent 36 hole rims be hard to find in few years?
See the link below for which Rohloff hubs Ison Distribution have in stock including those with 36 holes (the link is just for disc hubs with OEM1 and OEM2 axle plates, the other versions are elsewhere on Ison's website). NB 36h OEM1 hubs are not currently in stock, but SJS are currently selling off their stock of Mk1 OEM1 axle plates for £2.99 each, making it very cheap to convert an OEM2 hub,

https://www.ison-distribution.com/engli ... t=8HUROSDR

I think availability of 36 hole rims will vary depending upon the type of rim and intended usage. I don't think there is going to be much of a market for 36h lightweight narrow HP rims like the old Mavic Open Pro, because modern rims are superior even with fewer spokes. However, I expect there will continue to be 36h rims which are suitable for loaded touring, such as the Ryde Sputnik. Interestingly DT Swiss's disc version of its touring rim had 32 holes, and only the rim braked TK540 came in both 32 and 36 holes. However, in its Trekking range the disc rims are now also available with 36 holes, because they are designed to be compatible with e-bikes. Similarly, if you want wider rims DT Swiss's Hybrid Utility range also has 36 hole options, and I think the HX 491 rim is recommended by Thorn for the 650B Nomad, although they appear to use the 32 hole version. So it looks like e-bikes (or possibly rather the way they are operated by many of their owners) may ensure a continuing reasonable choice of good quality 36 hole rims suitable for touring.

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/components/rims-mtb/trekking

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/components/r ... hybrid-mtb

However, I think availability of the DT Swiss Hybrid Utility rims in the UK is not good (SJS are out of stock - https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rims-tape/3 ... rim-black/), and they are cheaper from the german retailers. If you are concerned about future availability, just buy a spare rim or two.
PH
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Re: SON hub choice question

Post by PH »

PT1029 wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 6:09pm I accept Rohloff's "Our dishless 32 is better than a dished 36". I read of 32 hole Rohloffs being used for tandem camping without issue, and I have camped on 32's many years ago (spokes survived, eventually (but not on tour) the rear (Specialized) rim cracked at the drive side spoke holes. Probably less of a risk with disc rims, as they are thicker around the spoke holes.
Now Rohloff use flange rings, 32 seems a more reliable prospect than previously (I have a photo sent by a friend taken in his Thailand hotel room, of his now empty hub shell as he put the innerds into an uncracked new shell).
My hubs are 32's. The oldest had two flange breakages in the first nine years and none in the nine years since, despite it still not having the support rings. They've made a few changes over the years and I think they're now simply better. Thorn still recommend 32 and also build the wheels in their own unique way, I don't know if they're right, but they're confident enough to warranty them for ten years (The Rohloff warranty is only two years)
As a poor weather Sunday bike, I was hoping for anodized as a resistance to salt corrosion - not only cosmetic, but also structural around the stressed spoke holes.
I give my hubs a spray of ACF-50 before the roads start being gritted, though the shiny silver ones are now on a bike that doesn't see a lot of winter weather.
steelframe
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Re: SON hub choice question

Post by steelframe »

PT1029 wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 10:09am I want a SON front dynamo hub due to its reliability/less dyno vibration. To save elbow grease, I'd want silver anodized, not silver polished.
Silver polish available in 6 bolts fitting and center lock fitting.
Silver anodized only available in centre lock fitting.
Schmidt do produce the version you want: https://nabendynamo.de/en/products/hub- ... ard-forks/

SON 28 disc 6-bolt
for rotors with robust 6-bolt mount
for lots of light even at low riding speed
also for various charging tasks using a charger

28 hole 312892
32 hole 313292
36 hole 313692
silver anodized
RRP in D 269,00 €


So it seems to be a dealer issue. Personally, as others have already said, I'd have no issues with the polished version. I do have a couple of them running in various bikes and basically never clean them. No issues whatsoever. Fits well with a silver Rohloff as well.
PH
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Re: SON hub choice question

Post by PH »

steelframe wrote: 29 Jun 2022, 9:34pm Fits well with a silver Rohloff as well.
As already mentioned Rohloff no longer offer the polished finish. So, if it's important to the OP, a polished SON and an anodized Rohloff will age differently. However well they match when new, it won't last.
Tiberius
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Re: SON hub choice question

Post by Tiberius »

PT1029 wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 6:09pm Does anyone out there have a silver anodized SON dynamo hub? Of so, is it a nice smooth wipe clean finish, or a slightly matt hard to clean finish?
How well does the anodizing (silver or black) stay on? It should be fairly good as it is part of the metal. I ask because coated components (different process/finish I know) often end up look tatty as corrosion lifts off the finish at edges and spoke holes.
I have a silver anodized SON hub (six years old) and I can never get it REALLY clean, it will never come up with that glorious shine that you can get polishing bare metal silver hubs. The bike is used in all weathers but is well maintained. The finish isn't lifting at all - I also have a bike with a red SON hub (five years old) and the finish is perfect on that one too.

If I could click my fingers and have just what I wanted then I would have polished bare metal everytime.
PT1029
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Re: SON hub choice question

Post by PT1029 »

Thanks all.
I have a silver anodized SON hub (six years old) and I can never get it REALLY clean, it will never come up with that glorious shine that you can get polishing bare metal silver hubs.
That is what is suspected, wamted to know but didn't want to hear!

follow on queries.
1. From comments above thread and what I have seen in bikes, am I correct in thinking that tarnishing/dulling aside, polished SON hubs don't really corrode/go white/furry etc? It seems some aluminium alloys corrode more/less than others. I recall Brucey once saying that Weinmann centre pulls never corroded (which is what I have noticed over the years).

2. Now it sems that anodized SON hubs don't wipe perfectly clean (like my Open Sport/Rhyde rims). What of Rohloff, are their silver anodized hubs wipe clean?, or just a tad matt to make it hard for a fully clean finish? May be the answer is muddied by the inevitable bit of escaped gear oil?!

3. !990's Mavic rims/TA cranks/1990's Shimano XT cranks/Cinelli A1 stems were anodized, and all wiped clean. Does any one know the difference between wipe clean and not wipe clean anodizing?
Anodizing is a controlled oxidation of the metal surface (any colour finish is with dye added during the process). Is it the case that that wipe clean anodized parts were polished smooth before anodizing, where as the slightly matt finish abodized finishes were not polished?
PH
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Re: SON hub choice question

Post by PH »

PT1029 wrote: 30 Jun 2022, 9:26am 1. From comments above thread and what I have seen in bikes, am I correct in thinking that tarnishing/dulling aside, polished SON hubs don't really corrode/go white/furry etc? It seems some aluminium alloys corrode more/less than others. I recall Brucey once saying that Weinmann centre pulls never corroded (which is what I have noticed over the years).
My polished SON hub is older than the Rohloff, 21 years old I think, for 15 of those it was in my all weather, everyday commuting and everything else bike. Kept reasonably clean, sprayed with something before the gritting starts (recently ACF-50 but before that probably GT85) and polished every two or three years with Silvo. Sent away for new bearings once about 5 years ago. It looks and feels like new. There's never been any sign of furry corrosion, they go dull after a couple of years, i don't think that's harmful, I just like to keep mine polished.

Another aesthetic consideration - When I bought another Rohloff a couple of years ago I chose black, in part because the polished finish isn't available, but also the flange support rings only come in black and IMO look ugly on a silver hub. On a black hub you don't notice them.
PT1029
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Re: SON hub choice question

Post by PT1029 »

PH, thanks. Yes I have been pondering the estheatics of a silver hub with black flange rings vs a fully black hub.
I just wish I was not so particular. I am planning a new bike, the frame builder described by brief as "unusually detailed"!
PH
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Re: SON hub choice question

Post by PH »

PT1029 wrote: 1 Jul 2022, 8:47am I just wish I was not so particular.
Likewise, though it's very satisfying when you get it right.
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