Cycling UK Forum

would both be made to measure?

sussex cyclist wrote: ↑28 Jun 2022, 11:22pm It would probably have to be another custom build. Nobody seems to make them - certainly not to the spec I want.

What exactly is the spec that you want?

Bmblbzzz wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 9:46am …look for something that rides how you like, looks good to you, you can afford, etc.

Easier said than done given my need for horizontal dropouts, which aren't exactly popular. (I know there are workarounds for single speeding; my Litespeed, for example, was lucky enough to yield a magic gear. But I want to keep it simple.)

Nearholmer wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 9:50am I don’t know where in Sussex you cycle, but I’m visiting the area where I grew up in The Weald at the moment, and given the nature of the hills, which have become much taller and steeper over past forty years, I’d recommend a bike made from feathers for lightness.

Mad Jack country. Typical ride has about 2000 feet of climbing.

mig wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 9:59am would both be made to measure?

Yes, in all likelihood.

slowster wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 10:01am What exactly is the spec that you want?

I strongly prefer 130mm width dropouts, to admit regular road wheels. I don't like being stuck with single speed specific wheels and screw on freewheels. I can live with 120mm if something great comes along, but usually when you see, say, a ti track bike, it's also missing brake stops. I also prefer track ends, which Sheldon tells me aren't technically dropouts (point taken), but that's not a dealbreaker.

Van Nic used to do a SS Yukon. This Lynskey also still comes up in searches to taunt me.

sussex cyclist wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 12:18pm
I strongly prefer 130mm width dropouts, to admit regular road wheels.

Rim brake only? or would you consider 135mm and discs?

I have a steel, titanium and carbon fibre bikes. They all have identical groupsets,
wheels/hubs/cassette ratios, saddles, handlebars. They are all comfortable to ride
over many miles.

sussex cyclist wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 12:18pm I strongly prefer 130mm width dropouts, to admit regular road wheels. I don't like being stuck with single speed specific wheels and screw on freewheels. I can live with 120mm if something great comes along, but usually when you see, say, a ti track bike, it's also missing brake stops. I also prefer track ends, which Sheldon tells me aren't technically dropouts (point taken), but that's not a dealbreaker.

After your experience with Enigma, in your shoes I would be considering three options:

1. Custom steel from one of the best old school framebuilders, e.g. Dave Yates (if he has not completely retired by now) or Kevin Sayles at Woodrup.

2. Custom titanium from one of the UK brands that gets its frames made by a manufacturer like Waltly or XACD in China.

3. Custom titanium from Seven Cycles.

With regards to custom steel, I would be guided by the framebuilder to have the alloy and tube thicknesses that they considered best for the rider and use. I think too often stainless steel tubes like 953 are chosen for bragging rights/'because it must be the best' and are used in large diameter tubes to give a very stiff lightweight tube, which is potentially too stiff and is not necessarily the best option for a given rider.

As for titanium, option 2 keeps the price down, so if/when the frame fails, the pain should be less. Seven Cycles probably have the highest build quality, so the risk of problems or premature failure should be minimised, but you pay a premium for that.

https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Seven- ... Frame/1B92

https://www.cyclefit.co.uk/bikes/brand/seven-cycles

https://www.sevencycles.com/bikes.php

If it were me, in all honesty I would prefer a custom Dave Yates in 631 (or whatever other tubing he recommended) to a Seven or Moots, regardless of the price.

One other possible option might be the Spa Audax Mono, even if it were as a stopgap with a view to getting a titanium frame in another few years. It's 120mm OLN, but if that mattered a lot you could investigate getting it respaced.

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m11b0s143p4 ... o-Frameset

for me it has to be a steel frame made by a local builder. steel rides well enough. a singlespeed/fixed bike is enhanced by simplicity. domestic materials put together by a local artisan.

spec what you want for the riding you do in terms of spacing and braze ons. your (bargain) ebay frame has mudguard eyes at the rear so it looks like you ride all year 'round - go for that, space for the more supple larger volume tyres of modern times and away you go. plus you can do the same for the front fork which isn't so easy for titanium steeds.

ps my track bike is 631 and painted in gunmetal paint. looks good.

slowster wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 1:34pm Custom titanium from one of the UK brands that gets its frames made by a manufacturer like Waltly or XACD in China.

I've bought titanium frames from XACD in China. I found the whole process relatively easy,
and you can end up with a made-to-measure frame for a fraction (well, a lot less) of the
price other titanium builders will charge.

Jupestar wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 12:43pm Rim brake only? or would you consider 135mm and discs?

I hadn't given that any thought, disc brakes, for all their benefits, not seeming to fit within the brief of simplicity. That I have no experience with them isn't an automatic disqualifier, but I'm thinking I'd rather stick with rim brakes.

slowster wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 1:34pm https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Seven- ... Frame/1B92

If only I'd started with Seven* in the beginning. Now it will only happen if a Premium Bond comes through or a discerning art collector alights upon my ad. Meanwhile I've been in touch with Waltly, and Burls. The former is complicated by the extreme DIY nature of the design process despite my having a frame to work from. The latter is a possibility, though Justin is no longer dealing with his Russian suppliers for obvious reasons and although he says he has another dependable builder, he's in somewhat uncharted territory when it comes to possible warranty issues.

If I could go for a ride on a good steel bike it would be a huge help, but the problem is finding the right one for a fair test.

Thanks for all the food for thought.

mig wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 2:31pm for me it has to be a steel frame made by a local builder. steel rides well enough. a singlespeed/fixed bike is enhanced by simplicity. domestic materials put together by a local artisan.

Local was certainly the ideal - I felt fortunate to have Enigma not far off.



The most likely local steel builder is having some issues.

De Sisti wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 2:56pm I've bought titanium frames from XACD in China.

Just saw this as I was posting. I haven't looked at them yet.


* So many slanting top tubes! Give me one where if I put a level on it the bubble settles in the middle or close enough.

sussex cyclist wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 2:59pm
I hadn't given that any thought, disc brakes, for all their benefits, not seeming to fit within the brief of simplicity. That I have no experience with them isn't an automatic disqualifier, but I'm thinking I'd rather stick with rim brakes.

The reason i ask is because disc gave me more 'off the peg' options, for SS/cassette on the same frame (at this point i gave up fixed). When i was looking, Genesis, Surly, Octane One, On-One all had options. But because of my preference for EBB over 'track style' drops I had my eye on Singular Cycles who do Steel and Ti.

I couldn't decide so brought a 'banger' secondhand frame with 135 /Disc /EBB for £40 and brought it back to life with paint, braze ons and a hacked on RD hanger, brought as a test.. it has since become the solution. 3 years later I continue to decide Steel or Ti.

sussex cyclist wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 2:59pm
If I could go for a ride on a good steel bike it would be a huge help, but the problem is finding the right one for a fair test.

I use the secondhand market to test out all sort of stuff, i'd never outlay on new, (various frames, 27.5, dI2, Alfine, tt brakes, grip shifters etc etc etc). It all comes and (mostly) goes again with minimal net outlay, and i keep grinding my SS.

sussex cyclist wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 2:59pm
* So many slanting top tubes! Give me one where if I put a level on it the bubble settles in the middle or close enough.

Not sure if it just cosmetic, or it really does ride better but 1000% agree!

For me it’s steel over titanium every time, I’ve owned 4 titanium frames, 3 of them cracked, never broken an aluminium, steel or carbon bike.

sussex cyclist wrote: ↑28 Jun 2022, 10:39pm

Jamesh wrote: ↑28 Jun 2022, 10:34pm Why would you want titanium when you had two crack....?

I don't count the Litespeed's crack against it because it likely wouldn't have happened if I hadn't had surgery performed on it.

I had a Ti frame that cracked and I know of another. Both were unmodified.

De Sisti wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 1:07pm I have a steel, titanium and carbon fibre bikes. They all have identical groupsets,
wheels/hubs/cassette ratios, saddles, handlebars.

I’m intrigued. Are you a bicycle reviewer?

sussex cyclist wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 2:59pm
* So many slanting top tubes! Give me one where if I put a level on it the bubble settles in the middle or close enough.

Here you go:
https://aphelioncycles.com/Aphelion-198 ... rbon-Fibre

Ti fixed gear / SS road bike. They do a more track-based geometry frame as well which truly does have a horizontal TT.

You get an interesting colour grey when you have a steel frame shot-blasted, with a pleasing contrast on the joints. Perhaps you should consider having one blasted and lacquered?