Audax navigation

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
ericonabike
Posts: 362
Joined: 24 Apr 2008, 4:05pm

Audax navigation

Post by ericonabike »

I've been out of the audax scene for 12 years or so, having previously completed a couple of dozen or so 200kms, as well as other long distance rides. I've caught the bug again, and have signed up for a Suffolk event next month. But I'm looking at navigation...
In the past I've always used the route sheet with a map as back up. But I'd like to see what I'm missing in the electronic world. I bought a used Garmin Edge 520, but hated it! Fiddly, clunky and geared more towards performance than navigation. So I thought about using my phone.
Having bought Komoot, for £20, I am enjoying it very much. The phone mounts nicely on my tri bars, and the turn by turn voice commands make following routes a doddle. Only two problems - battery life (given I am likely to be grovelling round Suffolk for 12 hours or so) and waterproofing.
I plan to solve the first with a power pack, of similar dimensions to the phone, which can sit beneath it. And if it rains, a plastic bag can cover both.
Has, anyone else used this set-up? Or indeed, can see problems with it. Thanks in advance, and fo reading this far!
Motorists' mantra: Cyclists must obey the law and the Highway Code AT ALL TIMES. Unless their doing so would HOLD ME UP.
PH
Posts: 13106
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Audax navigation

Post by PH »

How is it attached to the bars? I use a Quadlock and the poncho cover keeps the rain off an already water resistant phone. The issue with that is you can't charge with its fitted. Plenty of other covers available, I had a Topeak before the QL, but IMO the QL is worth the extra cost. There's also an issue with the touch screen performance in the wet, less of a problem if you don't need to swipe, but occasionally even the droplets of water on it are enough to be mistaken for a touch. If you're using voice directions (Headphones?), just stick in a pocket (Or bar/toptube bag) which is what I do when doing Deliveroo.
On longer rides and Audax I've started using a phone and OsmAnd while I consider whether to replace my aging Garmin, not decided yet, main disadvantages are the size and the screen isn't as readable in direct sunlight.
geocycle
Posts: 2177
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 9:46am

Re: Audax navigation

Post by geocycle »

I used a set up like you are proposing for a few tours before going fully garmin/wahoo. You have identified the two biggest issues, battery drains very quickly with the screen on and rain is a disaster with a touch screen as well as water ingress. Your solution should work but it will be in my view second best to a dedicated cycle computer -the newer ones will last 12 hours plus. For what it is worth I load a gpx trail and basically follow the dots. I like seeing the map and the villages approaching as well as knowing how far up a long climb I am. It will do lots of other things which I disable as i can't bear being nagged by electronics on a bike ride!
ericonabike
Posts: 362
Joined: 24 Apr 2008, 4:05pm

Re: Audax navigation

Post by ericonabike »

Hopefully, a picture will be worth a thousand words! The phone in the pic is my wife's, the same size. The battery pack should fit nicely underneath. Both can be protected by a ziploc bag when it rains. For a total outlay of £40. How much would I have to spend to get a similar set up via Garmin etc do you think?
Attachments
Tri bar attached
Tri bar attached
Motorists' mantra: Cyclists must obey the law and the Highway Code AT ALL TIMES. Unless their doing so would HOLD ME UP.
freeflow
Posts: 1635
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 1:54pm

Re: Audax navigation

Post by freeflow »

Been using such a setup for navigating long rides for nearly 10 years now. I use a powerpack that takes separate 4x18650 lithium batteries so its easy to swap out batteries on a long ride. The battery pack also powers my main light for over 5 hours (running simultaneously with the phone).

Strong sunlight can make the screen a little more difficult to read but is never impossible. Wet weather is managed easily with a plastic bag over the phone (my holder facilitates this.

I've used Osmand and currently Locus Maps for navigating. Very easy to transfer routes to the phone and subsequently upload to Stava et al if that dings your bell.

In a recent 300km ride I used two sets of batteries and arrived at my destination some 23 hours after setting off with 100% charged phone.

I really really don't understand why folks are buying cycling specific gps when a cheap, dedicated phone used simless for navigation duties only would only cost around £100-150 new.
PH
Posts: 13106
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Audax navigation

Post by PH »

freeflow wrote: 30 Jun 2022, 4:51pm Been using such a setup for navigating long rides for nearly 10 years now.
Out of interest - What size phone do you use? I've gone the bigger is better route for my general phone, but feel it's too big on the bars. If I stick with OsmAnd I might look for something smaller - I might even have an old iPhone somewhere.
scottg
Posts: 1218
Joined: 10 Jan 2008, 8:44pm
Location: Highland Heights Kentucky,, USA

Re: Audax navigation

Post by scottg »

freeflow wrote: 30 Jun 2022, 4:51pm[snip]

I really really don't understand why folks are buying cycling specific gps when a cheap, dedicated phone used simless for navigation duties only would only cost around £100-150 new.
Nav is a minor function to a large proportion of cycling gps users, they use it for training/strava/competition uses.
Look at the long and incomprehensible list of updates for the Garmin 1040, there many more functions, but you get the idea.

From DC Rainmaker, the only human to actually try out all the function of a Garmin cycling GPS, so you don't have to. :)

– Added Connect IQ Widget Glances to Homepage/Dashboard
– Added Power Guide for per-course training/racing guidance
– Added Up Ahead for distance to waypoints
– Added Cycling Ability to classify cyclist strengths/weaknesses
– Added Course Demands to compare course features to ride needs
– Added Real-Time Stamina to show energy/distance/duration left during workout
– Added Location Search Widget
– Added ‘Recent Finds’ from navigation panel (so things you recently searched for).
– Added new ‘Bike Shops’ & “Water Stops” categories for navigation search (and completely re-did other categories to mostly get rid of auto stuff)
– Added Post-Ride ClimbPro Splits on device
– Added re-scheduling of primary workouts
– Added support race/event driven Daily Suggested Workouts (subset of what was launched on FR255/955 last week)
– Added paired sensor information to summary page (even for non-Garmin sensors)
– Added support for Shimano STEPS sensor type (eBike component)
– Added new consolidated post-ride Highlights screen with PR’s
– Added estimated battery remaining when toggling Battery Saver mode
– Added manual WiFi sync all button (a ‘do it now’ option, but removed single-ride upload option)
– Added phone-based config of data fields/data pages
– Added Garmin Connect IQ App Store on-device marketplace
– Changed nearby POI/Things search to be fast AF now. Holy crap.
– Far faster route calculation times
– Increased ClimbPro coloring to show more gradient definition
– Now automatically changes map popularity type to match activity (I.e. Road vs MTB
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Deutsche Luftschiffahrts-AG
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
ericonabike
Posts: 362
Joined: 24 Apr 2008, 4:05pm

Re: Audax navigation

Post by ericonabike »

freeflow wrote: 30 Jun 2022, 4:51pm
I really really don't understand why folks are buying cycling specific gps when a cheap, dedicated phone used simless for navigation duties only would only cost around £100-150 new.
Curious about the simless bit - had assumed a sim would be needed for gps? If not, then a used phone would be even cheaper!
Motorists' mantra: Cyclists must obey the law and the Highway Code AT ALL TIMES. Unless their doing so would HOLD ME UP.
De Sisti
Posts: 1507
Joined: 17 Jun 2007, 6:03pm

Re: Audax navigation

Post by De Sisti »

ericonabike wrote: 30 Jun 2022, 3:18pm I bought a used Garmin Edge 520, but hated it! Fiddly, clunky and geared more towards performance than navigation.
Have you sold it?
ericonabike
Posts: 362
Joined: 24 Apr 2008, 4:05pm

Re: Audax navigation

Post by ericonabike »

Motorists' mantra: Cyclists must obey the law and the Highway Code AT ALL TIMES. Unless their doing so would HOLD ME UP.
crossy
Posts: 389
Joined: 9 Aug 2011, 6:48pm

Re: Audax navigation

Post by crossy »

I’ve used a Samsung phone in a topeak phone pouch on an audax with Komoot voice directions and have the phone screen off I’ve done 70 miles with it and it only used 50 %of the battery that’s going really slowly 8/9 mph. I did a 200k ride in torrential rain with the phone on the handle bars with no problem so I know the pouch works well.
ICE Adventure E51, Van Nic Amazon E40, NWT Bike Friday E17, Orange Rohloff, Total E58
rareposter
Posts: 1987
Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: Audax navigation

Post by rareposter »

ericonabike wrote: 30 Jun 2022, 6:21pm
Curious about the simless bit - had assumed a sim would be needed for gps? If not, then a used phone would be even cheaper!
The SIM is only there to give you a number and allow you to make / receive calls. GPS and offline mapping works independently. The only proviso is that without a SIM you won't get updates over the network but that's not an issue, you just connect the phone to wifi. A lot of phones are set to only download updates (eg for mapping) when connected to wifi anyway cos it's massively data hungry.

So long as the mapping is up to date, you can download a route to a smartphone and run it (without a SIM) for as long as needed.
freeflow wrote: 30 Jun 2022, 4:51pm I really really don't understand why folks are buying cycling specific gps when a cheap, dedicated phone used simless for navigation duties only would only cost around £100-150 new.
Because mapping is only a small part of cycling-specific GPS. They connect to powermeters, cadence and heart rate sensors, even Di2 shifters. They show performance metrics, gradients, pace control, record dozens of parameters of distance, speed, climbing etc, upload to Strava...

They're also smaller and neater than a phone, less fragile and generally have a longer battery life. Some of that won't matter to many people but a lot of it is enough to make a cycling-specific GPS well worth it over a phone.
Nigel
Posts: 463
Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 6:29pm

Re: Audax navigation

Post by Nigel »

freeflow wrote: 30 Jun 2022, 4:51pm
I really really don't understand why folks are buying cycling specific gps when a cheap, dedicated phone used simless for navigation duties only would only cost around £100-150 new.
Perhaps the GPS does a better job for them ?
I thought long and hard about using a phone (suitably robust one, waterproof, backup batteries) as a hill-navigation device, and after a lot of thought, bought a Garmin GPS (to replace a Garmin I'd owned for well over 15 years). After using the GPS in some crap weather, I'm still happy with the decision.



- Nigel
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 56359
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Audax navigation

Post by Mick F »

I have a Garmin Montana.
Excellent device and is a "do anything" GPS gadget.

Car satnav, bike too, or a boat, or an aircraft, hiking, dog-walking. It'll record what you want, will take Li battery, or AA cells, or can be powered from whatever source you might have.
Huge clear screen, works with thick (normal) gloves, in the rain, and it will even float.

Here it is on Moulton. Note the lanyard so when walking, I can hang it from a wrist.
Moulton and Mural.jpeg
Mick F. Cornwall
freeflow
Posts: 1635
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 1:54pm

Re: Audax navigation

Post by freeflow »

PH wrote: 30 Jun 2022, 5:34pm
freeflow wrote: 30 Jun 2022, 4:51pm Been using such a setup for navigating long rides for nearly 10 years now.
Out of interest - What size phone do you use? I've gone the bigger is better route for my general phone, but feel it's too big on the bars. If I stick with OsmAnd I might look for something smaller - I might even have an old iPhone somewhere.
Usually the biggest I can lay my hands on. So these days the screen size is about 6.5 inches diagonal. Somewhat smaller than my much loved but sadly now defunct Mi Max 3.
Post Reply