Wot makes a tent 4 season?

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Sweep
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Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by Sweep »

More perverse looking to winter thinking.
So, what?
As long as your tent keeps the rain/wind/snow off you, isn't that good enough as long as you have an appropriate sleep system?
I ask as many tents just say they are 3 season.
Are they being too modest/lawyer bound?
For uk use and not on mountains i stress.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by Tangled Metal »

4 season are just stronger designs that offer a number of advantages. Stronger poles, more rigid design, capable of shedding snow/strong winds, more internal space to sit or longer, darker nights, solid wall inner tent or even single wall and often two entrances. Those are just some things that may or may not be present in a 4 season tent.

I have a 3 person, extended porch tunnel tent that's 3.1kg with a good length inner tent that surprised me when I reread the writeup. It was so light and tiny oack size but was rated 4 season. They're not all heavy, but they are generally heavier.

I've camped in winter in 3 season tunnel tent. However, an Autumn storm was once a hairy experience in it. If you know what you are doing you can camp out in winter in a 3 season tent. I've had to tip the snow off a cheap, family tunnel tent a few times. I've even done that with a family frame tent intended for summer use. However I would never use them in those conditions anywhere without a car backup or alternative shelter. It's about managing risks.
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Sweep
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by Sweep »

Tangled Metal wrote: 5 Jul 2022, 10:19pm 4 season are just stronger designs that offer a number of advantages. Stronger poles, more rigid design, capable of shedding snow/strong winds, more internal space to sit or longer, darker nights, solid wall inner tent or even single wall and often two entrances. Those are just some things that may or may not be present in a 4 season tent.

I have a 3 person, extended porch tunnel tent that's 3.1kg with a good length inner tent that surprised me when I reread the writeup. It was so light and tiny oack size but was rated 4 season. They're not all heavy, but they are generally heavier.

I've camped in winter in 3 season tunnel tent. However, an Autumn storm was once a hairy experience in it. If you know what you are doing you can camp out in winter in a 3 season tent. I've had to tip the snow off a cheap, family tunnel tent a few times. I've even done that with a family frame tent intended for summer use. However I would never use them in those conditions anywhere without a car backup or alternative shelter. It's about managing risks.
thanks for reply tangled
but still puzzled/intrigued.
I have one of these.

https://www.wowcamping.co.uk/productDet ... -man-tent/

The manufacturers describe it as 3 season.

But I have sat out 12 hours of heavy summer rain in it.
And it has stood up to a classified storm (can't remember its name) without the guy lines attached.
What worse could happen in winter?
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PH
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by PH »

Sweep wrote: 6 Jul 2022, 12:19am I have one of these.
The seasons rating are just a guide, if you're happy it'll stand up to the conditions you'll meet that's all you need.
For a four season version of that tent I'd expect the fly to touch the ground and possibly have snow flaps so you could dig it in, plus be of stronger/heavier material. The inner tent to be a less breathable material, the poles to be stronger and designed with more crossing points, storm guys that you'd only need when the name applies, a door that could be opened from he top (If there's snow half way up it you don't want to open the bottom). Maybe more aerodynamic, though many 4 season tents seem to have steep walls to shed snow. Probably a load of other stuff I don't know, hopefully a bigger porch for all the cold weather gear.
I once heard such a tent described as fourth season, as in you wouldn't want to use it the other three.
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by Tangled Metal »

It's all a game of risk assessment and experience helps there. I've survived quite nicely with only one early morning adjustment a storm on top of a Lakeland mountain in just a flat tarp. That's +70mph gusts according to the weather guy reporting on the damage the next morning. On the same trip a hellebore atmosphere took a right battering. It survived but the occupants face could be seen through the flysheet blown flat against her face. Could see the open mouth with flysheet in it too. Quite amazing!

It's more complicated. A good 3 season tent can be be better than a cheaper 4 season. Hilleberg do some tents they describe as 3 season that I'd consider into 4 season category. Plus the ability to allow double poles, fabric strength that the best manufacturers don't use on their toughest tents. That's before you get into their high mountain/ polar tents.

Your tent I'd say is a classic 3 season and I'd only camp in winter in protected valleys. Places I can get other shelter easily if things go wrong. It's plan B plus you need if you are taking kit beyond what the designers planned for it.

If I'm honest about that tent I'd say definitely a 3 season tent. Robens is a brand that imho it's middle of the road in terms of quality and design. Some good stuff with mediocre or cheap stuff. I like the brand and have owned a few items that suited my needs / wants at the time. It'll serve you well I think.

One thing to consider, poles on cheaper tents might be made with pinched inserts to join the sections. These are weak points and they can very easily crack and fail. I had one fail without any external force being applied just the design forces when in the tent shape. It had three pinch points and a piece cracked out between two of them. That was after 3 days use. Of yours has that pole design you can either be aware of the risk and live with it or buy the press fit made poles from a good pole brand. You can get any length and make them up to exact size needed yourself apparently. However for 3 season use I'd not bother.
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by pjclinch »

It's a marketing term. To see what it actually means on a case by case basis you need to see what the manufacturer's marketing team think it means.

For example, Hilleberg mean (amongst other stuff) that the fly goes down to the ground. There's loads of very strong, very storm resistant tents where that's not the case.

As with other imprecise marketing terms (e.g. "soft shell") it's down to the buyer to make sure they get what they want/need by looking at the fine print.

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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by Pendodave »

By no means an official definition, but I always took it to mean that the structure retains its integrity under a decent snow load.
I realise that in scotland at least, that only eliminates a couple of months a year.
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by Vorpal »

I would expect somewhat heavier material & different ventilation arrangements for a tent that needs to be warm in winter as opposed to one designed to be comfortable in 3 seasons. It should also be designed to withstand snow.

Many places in England, you could probably get away with a good quality 3 season tent in winter.

3 seasons tents are generally designed to be comfortable somewhat below freezing, and withstand fairly harsh autumn weather in places with much more extreme climates than England.

But it also depends a lot on the tent. I currently have two tents, a Vango and a Helsport. Both are 3 seasons tents, but the Helsport is much more comfortable in colder, wetter weather. I would be perfectly happy with that as a winter camping tent in England, as long as I kept an eye in the weather and/or avoided places where snow or harsher conditions were likely. In Scotland or Norway, however, if I were planning winter camping, I would look for a 4 seasons tent.
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by Sweep »

PH wrote: 6 Jul 2022, 12:43am
Sweep wrote: 6 Jul 2022, 12:19am I have one of these.
The seasons rating are just a guide, if you're happy it'll stand up to the conditions you'll meet that's all you need.
For a four season version of that tent I'd expect the fly to touch the ground and possibly have snow flaps so you could dig it in, plus be of stronger/heavier material. The inner tent to be a less breathable material, the poles to be stronger and designed with more crossing points, storm guys that you'd only need when the name applies, a door that could be opened from he top (If there's snow half way up it you don't want to open the bottom). Maybe more aerodynamic, though many 4 season tents seem to have steep walls to shed snow. Probably a load of other stuff I don't know, hopefully a bigger porch for all the cold weather gear.
I once heard such a tent described as fourth season, as in you wouldn't want to use it the other three.
thanks for the post PH - good points, stuff to think about.
thanksto others posted so far as well.
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by Psamathe »

Sweep wrote: 6 Jul 2022, 12:19am ...
But I have sat out 12 hours of heavy summer rain in it.
And it has stood up to a classified storm (can't remember its name) without the guy lines attached.
What worse could happen in winter?
(I'm no expert but ...) weight of snow?

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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by Vantage »

I read somewhere that a four season tent would have skirts on the fly that extend to the floor to keep snow from blowing under and the mesh lining is kept to a minimum to help keep in some heat at the expense of condensation building up.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by Tangled Metal »

Not all four season tents have the snow skirts. Terra Nova Quasar is a geodesic tent with multiple pole crossing points for rigidity. It has no skirt except in one high altitude variant.

However two mates survived a truly horrendous storm in the Lakes. One had a 3 season hilleberg Nallo 2 tent and the other had a 4 season Terra Nova quasar tent. Which one had an intact tent after that stormy late summer camp?

The 3 season Hilleberg tent! It flexed but stayed intact. The rigid geodesic tent took the full force of the wind and it was enough to break one pole. They finished the night in the hilleberg together I believe.

My point being things aren't so clear cut about seasons.
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by Pebble »

If a tent is a bit heavier than the opposition, the manufacturer an add the 4 season label to keep it marketable - if it is seriously heavy the 5 season label can make an appearance.
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by pete75 »

Tangled Metal wrote: 6 Jul 2022, 1:42pm Not all four season tents have the snow skirts. Terra Nova Quasar is a geodesic tent with multiple pole crossing points for rigidity. It has no skirt except in one high altitude variant.

However two mates survived a truly horrendous storm in the Lakes. One had a 3 season hilleberg Nallo 2 tent and the other had a 4 season Terra Nova quasar tent. Which one had an intact tent after that stormy late summer camp?

The 3 season Hilleberg tent! It flexed but stayed intact. The rigid geodesic tent took the full force of the wind and it was enough to break one pole. They finished the night in the hilleberg together I believe.

My point being things aren't so clear cut about seasons.
Hilleberg call the Nallo2 all season which presumably means 4 season. What is 4 season though - 4 seasons in the UK are very different to 4 seasons in Sweden.
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by RobinS »

The spec doesn't actually say but our cycletouring tent is a Force 10 Xenon UL 2 Plus https://www.vango.co.uk/gb/camping-equi ... -plus.html Probably classed as four season by most people, and we have used it months at a time from April to October on tour. It has withstood everything the weather has thrown at it without problems.
For serious weather, winter storms etc however our old mountaineering tent, a Super Quasar https://www.terra-nova.co.uk/products/e ... er-quasar/ is in a completely different league. In that we have gone to sleep at a mountain campsite, slept comfortably all night, and in the morning discovered that almost every other tent on the site has been demolished/abandoned due to a storm that we didn't even notice. With decent pegging this could stand up in a stronger wind than I could!
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