Shimano Deore CS-M5100 Casette problem - And how I fix it.

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
User avatar
sefe2022
Posts: 43
Joined: 7 Apr 2022, 11:33am
Contact:

Shimano Deore CS-M5100 Casette problem - And how I fix it.

Post by sefe2022 »

About a month and a half ago, I ordered from Decathlon the Shimano Deore CS-M5100 11 Speed Cassette (11-51 T). It took 2 weeks for it to arrive from their European Warehouse to where I live, giving me time to read some reviews about it.

On a deeper look and after reading some reviews here and there, I noticed that there were many people who seem to have the same problem with this cassette - The cogs on the cassette become loose after a few rides.

I started to worry a bit while waiting for the cassette to arrive (even considering canceling the order), but I said - Hey, that couldn't happen to me - Boy, was I wrong! :D :D

After mounting it, I took it to a trail in the forest, and after 20-30km, something on my rear wheel started rattling like crazy.

After inspecting the cassette, the verdict was clear: I had the same problem other people had. I thought I didn't put enough force on the cassette lockring and tighten it even more than it already was. That seems to have solved the problem, but after another ride - the sound was there again!

I removed the lockring, took the cassette cogs off, and inspect them. Nothing seemed out of place, so the only thing that could be problematic in my opinion was the cassette lockring. And, I was right. :)

It seems that the lockring it's shorter (it should be a little longer - see first attached image), and no matter how much force you put on it, it still won't secure the cogs, and after some miles, the cassette will start to rattle, and the cogs will move independently.

Luckily for me, I did not throw the old lockrings from my previous cassettes that I had( One SRAM, and some Chinese cassette - that lasted about 2 months - but that is another story. :D )

I added the lockring from my SRAM cassette( see image 4 ), and after riding the bike for 3 weeks, I can confirm that the problem it's solved, and the cassette cogs are tight and not moving at all.

I am attaching some pictures for a better understanding, and I hope this post will help anybody else who had similar problems with this cassette.
IMG-20220706-WA0003.jpg
IMG_20220706_184353.jpg
IMG_20220706_185051.jpg
IMG_20220706_185009.jpg
I still can not believe that Shimano could make such an error, and still not address it yet, but again, maybe I was just lucky and this fix won't work for everyone.

Fingers crossed it will work for you, who are reading this :)
Bike Lover & Nature Explorer. Specialized & Cube Bikes fan!
User avatar
531colin
Posts: 16134
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Shimano Deore CS-M5100 Casette problem - And how I fix it.

Post by 531colin »

Does seem a stupid mistake by Shimano!
Does the Shimano lockring come loose when you ride? The shiny lockring in the top photo has a shoulder just underneath the locking teeth, is that the Shimano one? I wonder if that shoulder bottoms out on the freehub body (or on the top sprocket) and stops the lockring locking properly?
The black lockring has a longer thread, is the thread in the freehub body be long enough to fit it?
User avatar
sefe2022
Posts: 43
Joined: 7 Apr 2022, 11:33am
Contact:

Re: Shimano Deore CS-M5100 Casette problem - And how I fix it.

Post by sefe2022 »

531colin wrote: 6 Jul 2022, 6:42pm Does seem a stupid mistake by Shimano!
Does the Shimano lockring come loose when you ride? The shiny lockring in the top photo has a shoulder just underneath the locking teeth, is that the Shimano one? I wonder if that shoulder bottoms out on the freehub body (or on the top sprocket) and stops the lockring locking properly?
The black lockring has a longer thread, is the thread in the freehub body be long enough to fit it?
No, the Shimano lockring doesn't come loose, but due to the fact that it's shorter, it's not securing the cogs properly.

Yes, the shinny one it's the Shimano lockring.

The black one was installed with the previous casette, and it fitted properly.

The red lockring that is currently on the bike (from the SRAM casette) has the same size as the black one.
Bike Lover & Nature Explorer. Specialized & Cube Bikes fan!
User avatar
531colin
Posts: 16134
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Shimano Deore CS-M5100 Casette problem - And how I fix it.

Post by 531colin »

glad you got it fixed, anyway!
peetee
Posts: 4324
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Upon a lumpy, scarred granite massif.

Re: Shimano Deore CS-M5100 Casette problem - And how I fix it.

Post by peetee »

I had the same issue on a bike I was repairing and noticed in removing it that the hub, a Shimano through axle design, had a freehub arrangement with extended oversize internal sleeve so there was very little width left to include a thread for the cassette (hence the short lock ring). In fact the available threads had been damaged by the bike assembler so the wheel was passed back to the retailer for replacement.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
zenitb
Posts: 832
Joined: 7 Aug 2018, 9:59pm
Contact:

RE

Post by zenitb »

Are you sure you dont need one of these ?

We had a hope hub where the splines were 11 speed road rather than 11 speed MTB (they are different widths for Shimano - crazily) - and hope had put the wider road freehub on our mtb hub ... the MTB cassette was then loose as a result - no matter how much we tried tightening it. We added the 2mm spacer - all was good. The hub had actually come with a spacer but we hadn't realised its significance ..
Screenshot from 2022-07-07 23-55-43.png
TLDR: 11 Speed Road cassettes are wider than 11 speed MTB cassettes.
User avatar
sefe2022
Posts: 43
Joined: 7 Apr 2022, 11:33am
Contact:

Re: RE

Post by sefe2022 »

zenitb wrote: 7 Jul 2022, 11:59pm Are you sure you dont need one of these ?

We had a hope hub where the splines were 11 speed road rather than 11 speed MTB (they are different widths for Shimano - crazily) - and hope had put the wider road freehub on our mtb hub ... the MTB cassette was then loose as a result - no matter how much we tried tightening it. We added the 2mm spacer - all was good. The hub had actually come with a spacer but we hadn't realised its significance ..

Screenshot from 2022-07-07 23-55-43.png

TLDR: 11 Speed Road cassettes are wider than 11 speed MTB cassettes.
Yes, I am sure. I have like a bunch of spacers from my old casettes, and I remember I added one, and the lockring didn't fit with the extra spacer mounted.
Bike Lover & Nature Explorer. Specialized & Cube Bikes fan!
zenitb
Posts: 832
Joined: 7 Aug 2018, 9:59pm
Contact:

Re: RE

Post by zenitb »

sefe2022 wrote: 8 Jul 2022, 4:36am
zenitb wrote: 7 Jul 2022, 11:59pm Are you sure you dont need one of these ?

We had a hope hub where the splines were 11 speed road rather than 11 speed MTB (they are different widths for Shimano - crazily) - and hope had put the wider road freehub on our mtb hub ... the MTB cassette was then loose as a result - no matter how much we tried tightening it. We added the 2mm spacer - all was good. The hub had actually come with a spacer but we hadn't realised its significance ..

Screenshot from 2022-07-07 23-55-43.png

TLDR: 11 Speed Road cassettes are wider than 11 speed MTB cassettes.
Yes, I am sure. I have like a bunch of spacers from my old casettes, and I remember I added one, and the lockring didn't fit with the extra spacer mounted.
ok Sefe but do note this spacer is much thinner than the ones you get making up a cassette. Its not the same thing at all. Its to make up for the crazy fractional difference Shimano has between their two different widths of 11 speed splines. Totally agree the spacers from a cassette dont fit - we tried that as well, and failed like you did. In the end we ordered the right spacer.
User avatar
Philip Benstead
Posts: 1948
Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 7:06pm
Location: Victoria , London

Re: Shimano Deore CS-M5100 Casette problem - And how I fix it.

Post by Philip Benstead »

Some makes of freewheels require a spacer between the inside of the FW and the hub, otherwise, it rattles.
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclists' in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic
AndyK
Posts: 1502
Joined: 17 Aug 2007, 2:08pm
Location: Mid Hampshire

Re: RE

Post by AndyK »

zenitb wrote: 13 Jul 2022, 3:41pm
sefe2022 wrote: 8 Jul 2022, 4:36am
zenitb wrote: 7 Jul 2022, 11:59pm Are you sure you dont need one of these ?

We had a hope hub where the splines were 11 speed road rather than 11 speed MTB (they are different widths for Shimano - crazily) - and hope had put the wider road freehub on our mtb hub ... the MTB cassette was then loose as a result - no matter how much we tried tightening it. We added the 2mm spacer - all was good. The hub had actually come with a spacer but we hadn't realised its significance ..

Screenshot from 2022-07-07 23-55-43.png

TLDR: 11 Speed Road cassettes are wider than 11 speed MTB cassettes.
Yes, I am sure. I have like a bunch of spacers from my old casettes, and I remember I added one, and the lockring didn't fit with the extra spacer mounted.
ok Sefe but do note this spacer is much thinner than the ones you get making up a cassette. Its not the same thing at all. Its to make up for the crazy fractional difference Shimano has between their two different widths of 11 speed splines. Totally agree the spacers from a cassette dont fit - we tried that as well, and failed like you did. In the end we ordered the right spacer.
Zenitb is very likely right. The symptoms all fit. It's a very thin spacer (1.85mm to be exact, but 2mm is close enough!) - the one designed to fit 10-speed cassettes onto 11-speed freehubs. 11-speed MTB cassettes were designed to fit onto the older 10-speed compatiblefreehubs so they need that spacer if used on an 11-speed freehub.
User avatar
Sum
Posts: 331
Joined: 17 Jul 2010, 9:13am

Re: Shimano Deore CS-M5100 Casette problem - And how I fix it.

Post by Sum »

Some 11 speed cassettes do come supplied with a 1.85mm spacer for the reasons Zenitb and AndyK described:-
However the OP was able to fix their problem by using a SRAM lockring instead of the Shimano one. The photos on the OP suggest the SRAM lockring does not have any lip substantial enough to take up the slack equivalent to a 1.85mm spacer. So I'm not sure if the lack of a 1.85mm spacer is the issue here. Presumably the OP has a MTB freehub body?

Some reviews for the CS-M5100 complain that the rivets holding the first three gears to the spider can come loose over time. However I doubt this would be fixed by swapping the lockring so I suspect it's not the issue here.

531Colin has mentioned the presence of a shoulder just underneath the locking teeth in the OP's photo. It also appears that the Shimano lockring is missing its washer (item 19 in the EV):-
I'm wondering if the lack of a lockring washer might be the problem here? The SRAM lockring in the OP's photo also doesn't have a washer but SRAM lockrings don't come with them - at least the ones I have don't.
slowster
Moderator
Posts: 4656
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Shimano Deore CS-M5100 Casette problem - And how I fix it.

Post by slowster »

I think the OP's assessment was correct. His Shimano lockring appears to have only ~2.5 threads. My understanding of theaded fastenings is that engagement of 3 (full) threads is the absolute minimum. The fact that the OP has seen similar complaints online from other puchasers suggests that a batch of faulty lockrings were not picked up by Shimano's manufacturing quality control.

I don't know whether fitting the lockring to the threads of a Shimano steel freehub vs. an aluminium freehub of another brand would make any difference.
User avatar
Sum
Posts: 331
Joined: 17 Jul 2010, 9:13am

Re: Shimano Deore CS-M5100 Casette problem - And how I fix it.

Post by Sum »

If the OP had said the Shimano lockring was coming loose then this would suggest that the lack of threads may be the issue here, however the OP was clear in their reply to 531colin that the lockring doesn't come loose, which is both surprising and puzzling. Nothing else in the OP's assessment seems to suggest the lack of threads is an issue, which again is surprising but there it is.

NB (for the avoidance of doubt) I'm not suggesting that the lack of threads on the Shimano lockring may not turn out to be the issue here (indeed there's been previous discussion on this before), but rather the OP's assessment doesn't seem to lend itself to that conclusion. Hence the speculation on this thread.
User avatar
sefe2022
Posts: 43
Joined: 7 Apr 2022, 11:33am
Contact:

Re: Shimano Deore CS-M5100 Casette problem - And how I fix it.

Post by sefe2022 »

slowster wrote: 14 Jul 2022, 9:48am I think the OP's assessment was correct. His Shimano lockring appears to have only ~2.5 threads. My understanding of theaded fastenings is that engagement of 3 (full) threads is the absolute minimum. The fact that the OP has seen similar complaints online from other puchasers suggests that a batch of faulty lockrings were not picked up by Shimano's manufacturing quality control.

I don't know whether fitting the lockring to the threads of a Shimano steel freehub vs. an aluminium freehub of another brand would make any difference.
Slowster got it right.
The lockring didn't secure the casette cogs as it should be, and that's why they were coming loose. Maybe there are more problems with this casette( like the first 3 rivets coming loose quoted by someone else above).
I just said what helped me fixed my issue, hoping it will help others :D
Bike Lover & Nature Explorer. Specialized & Cube Bikes fan!
zenitb
Posts: 832
Joined: 7 Aug 2018, 9:59pm
Contact:

Re: Shimano Deore CS-M5100 Casette problem - And how I fix it.

Post by zenitb »

Sum wrote: 14 Jul 2022, 8:53am ..... So I'm not sure if the lack of a 1.85mm spacer is the issue here. Presumably the OP has a MTB freehub body?..
Sum I can see where you are going on this .. it was pretty much my logic at the time... MTB hub must have an MTB freehub body right ??...?
Screenshot_20220715-101923_Firefox.jpg
..but no.. our burly 148mm Hope Pro 4 boost hub actually came with road width cassette splines..so needs the spacer for MTB cassettes!! ..I think this is so Hope only have to make one 11 speed cassette body. Now it looks like there should have been a spacer in the Hope hub box but in our enthusiasm to get the wheel built it looks like we missed it and then lost it! Other forums are reporting the issue for Hope MTB hubs.

https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/17131 ... ub-spacer/

https://m.pinkbike.com/forum/listcommen ... did=189396

Sum I also note your valid point regarding the missing ring..again possible and one to check.

Sefe hasn't said what hub he is using. That would be useful to know.. is it a a third party one?
Post Reply