Cycling UK Forum

mumbojumbo wrote: ↑11 Jul 2022, 7:14pm We need to eat some meat otherwise there would fewer sheep and cattle in rural areas ,and meat tastes good.Eating less meat is a great idea,and will reduce the prices, so the occasional treat is a cheap option.

Eating no meat will diminish the need for the breeding of livestock,humans don't need to eat meat to live a healthy and happy life.

reohn2 wrote: ↑11 Jul 2022, 10:14pm

Bonefishblues wrote: ↑11 Jul 2022, 8:12pm It often (usually?) involves slaughtering bull calves as an unnecessary byproduct of getting the cows into milk I believe.

That isn't a necessity though as much as it's a practice.

They have little or no economic value, so whilst we can have the debate about necessity or otherwise they're not going to live happily ever after.

Bonefishblues wrote: ↑11 Jul 2022, 10:28pm

reohn2 wrote: ↑11 Jul 2022, 10:14pm

Bonefishblues wrote: ↑11 Jul 2022, 8:12pm It often (usually?) involves slaughtering bull calves as an unnecessary byproduct of getting the cows into milk I believe.

That isn't a necessity though as much as it's a practice.

They have little or no economic value, so whilst we can have the debate about necessity or otherwise they're not going to live happily ever after.

I understand that,it's the industrial scale livestock farming that creates that situation.

BTW I eat very little dairy,just a little cheese probably twice a week,my milk intake is oat or coconut milk which is less than a pint a week.

I believe in Wiltshire Ham the only preservative is salt via brine? As I understand it Parma is a dry cure giving dry ham but Wiltshire ham is moist which we prefer. For reasons of economy we buy small gammon joints which we cook at home by simmering. This produces nice moist ham. We try to avoid Danish sourced bacon and ham because of the awful way they factory farm pigs. Our village butcher is very aware of animal husbandry. You pay more in his shop but all his meat and meat products are exceptional.

Al

al_yrpal wrote: ↑12 Jul 2022, 7:22am I believe in Wiltshire Ham the only preservative is salt via brine?
...

"Wiltshire Cured" is a protected food name with Traditional Speciality Guaranteed.

The curing uses both nitrite and nitrate and the specification includes the minimum and maximum levels that must be achieved and maintained:
https://www.gov.uk/protected-food-drink ... red-gammon

Jonathan

PS: The Daily Mail's "unslewed" version:

How harmful is YOUR ham? Waitrose and Co-op Wiltshire-cured meats contain nearly SEVEN times the number of cancer-causing nitrites as regular bacon and ham, study shows
• Popular Wiltshire ham contain more nitrites than some types of bacon, new research revealed today
• Study was carried out by food scientists based at the University of Nottingham on 12 types of meat
• Figures are so high because of the 'nitrite bath' method of curing the meat changes chemicals in it
• One cardiologist Dr Aseem Malhotra, who has seen the study, says Wiltshire process should change
• But supermarkets insist nitrite levels were safe sand within guidelines after results of a 2017 survey
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... meats.html

Still prefer Wiltshire to Parma.

I have noticed that food fadders and vegetarian aquaintances and friends dont seem to have been protected from cancer, parkinsons and dementia any more than anyone else? I expect statistics prove otherwise?

It seems to be common sense that if you consume large amounts of certain foods it can possibly adversly and positively affect you.

Al

I recommend:

"Bacon, salami and sausages: How does processed and red meat cause cancer and how much matters?"
https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2021/ ... h-matters/
which includes:
"The evidence that processed meat causes cancer is as strong as the evidence for tobacco, but the risk from tobacco is much higher."

and

"FAQ: Processed Meat and Cancer":
https://www.aicr.org/news/faq-processed ... nd-cancer/
which includes:
"Research suggests that regularly eating even small amounts of cold cuts, bacon, sausage and hot dogs increase colorectal cancer risk, which is why AICR recommends avoiding these foods, except for special occasions.
The risk continues to rise as processed meat consumption increases. Studies show that compared to eating no processed meat, eating 3.5 ounces every day – a large hot dog – increases colorectal cancer risk by 36%."

The NHS advice:
"Meat in your diet":
https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/f ... nutrition/
"Bowel cancer":
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/bowel-cancer/

Jonathan

This ham is useless once fried -collapses and becomes discoloured after heat treatment. Cut too thin in my view.

Sodium Nitrite....

http://www.meatsafety.org/ht/d/sp/i/45243/pid/45243

If you consume large amounts of meat you do seem to risk your health. Surprising that Spinach contains large quantities of Nitrite. Never seemed to hurt Popeye!

Al

al_yrpal wrote: ↑12 Jul 2022, 3:23pm Sodium Nitrite....

http://www.meatsafety.org/ht/d/sp/i/45243/pid/45243

I wouldn't trust that article. It swaps between nitrite and nitrate without saying why. It doesn't contain any references to the health effects of processed meat, as upthread, including bowel cancer.

A linked page on the same site includes:
Can cured meats be produced without sodium nitrite?
Cured meats by their definition must include sodium nitrite.

Cured meats can be produced without adding nitrite or nitrate, as in the variety in the Subject of this thread.

Jonathan

reohn2 wrote: ↑11 Jul 2022, 10:48pm

Bonefishblues wrote: ↑11 Jul 2022, 10:28pm

reohn2 wrote: ↑11 Jul 2022, 10:14pm

That isn't a necessity though as much as it's a practice.

They have little or no economic value, so whilst we can have the debate about necessity or otherwise they're not going to live happily ever after.

I understand that,it's the industrial scale livestock farming that creates that situation.

BTW I eat very little dairy,just a little cheese probably twice a week,my milk intake is oat or coconut milk which is less than a pint a week.

Well I don't consume a great deal of dairy either - but I eat veal because I feel there is a moral imperative to consume the meat if an animal is slaughtered as a by product of the dairy industry. Actually I'm quite partial to a decent wiener schnitzel.

This is topical:

"French health authorities say they have confirmed a link between nitrates added to processed meat and colon cancer, dealing a blow to the country’s prized ham and cured sausage industry."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... uthorities

I'll see if I can find the primary source...

Jonathan

ANTONISH wrote: ↑12 Jul 2022, 4:19pm

reohn2 wrote: ↑11 Jul 2022, 10:48pm

Bonefishblues wrote: ↑11 Jul 2022, 10:28pm

They have little or no economic value, so whilst we can have the debate about necessity or otherwise they're not going to live happily ever after.

I understand that,it's the industrial scale livestock farming that creates that situation.

BTW I eat very little dairy,just a little cheese probably twice a week,my milk intake is oat or coconut milk which is less than a pint a week.

Well I don't consume a great deal of dairy either - but I eat veal because I feel there is a moral imperative to consume the meat if an animal is slaughtered as a by product of the dairy industry. Actually I'm quite partial to a decent wiener schnitzel.

I've no beef(sorry)with anyone who eats meat that's their choice,my choice is not to.
My initial post was that if you're concerned about animal welfare,which your OP seemed to indicate that you are,then don't eat meat,now comes down to me eating a little cheese

Sacré Bleu, C'est le Groaniad encore. Le premier source de mauvais temps...

Al

al_yrpal wrote: ↑12 Jul 2022, 5:09pm Sacré Bleu, C'est le Groaniad encore. Le premier source de mauvais temps...

Al

Err