Pictures of your recumbent

[UpWrong]

Wow. Where on earth did you find those front wheels? Presumably the hub spacing needs to be the same as the original hubs.

[ONETAL]

No they are standard 100mm front wheels with 12mm through axles hubs with the cones removed, I used 148mm Titanium axles. The disc has a 135mm QR hub with a Sram XD fitting freehub body. I had them made by a carbon wheel specialist in China that I've had wheels from when I used to race on uprights.

[Lodge]

She lives! My Azub Mini, bought as a frame kit from Laid Back Bikes in Edinburgh, is now sufficiently complete to ride. Just in time for the worst of the winter weather. Hmm.

There's still a bit to do over the next weeks though. The Rohloff in the rear wheel is currently direct from my Tern Vektron but will be rebuilt with an Andra 29 rim so the Tern rim can go back from whence it came (albeit with original 10 speed derailleur). The front wheel is from a Hase Pino - this will also be fitted with an Andra rim and polished aluminium hub to match the Rohloff. And of course lights need to be fitted.

Good parts one keeps. I was so pleased to be able to not only transfer the Rohloff, but also to re-use a Shimano STEPS motor which was removed from a trike I sold on a couple of years ago. The Rohloff now has 29968 miles on it having seen service in a Patria Terra and ICE Sprint before the Tern Vektron. The Tektro 203/180mm disc brakes were originally on our Pino (but were not up to the steep slopes of the Peak District so were replaced with Hope ventilated discs). They should do well on a solo bike with plenty of power to control descents of the local 25% gradients even when loaded for touring.

[a.twiddler]

That looks very nice! That's a very good shade of green. It certainly out -greens my Grasshopper.

[UpWrong]

Very nice. I think I'd struggle to step over the frame though. I'd want to fit aerobars too, but AZUB don't offer them anymore.

[Cowsham]

Lovely bike

[Lodge]

Very nice. I think I'd struggle to step over the frame though. I'd want to fit aerobars too, but AZUB don't offer them anymore.

As a guide to how big it is, bear in mind I'm only 170 cm, 5'7", with a 29" inside leg. It's nicely lower than the Bacchetta Giro with 24"wheels I had a few years back. And the tiller steering doesn't "tiller" too much being quite vertical compared with some of the more laid-back racer-style recumbents.

[Cowsham]

As a guide to how big it is, bear in mind I'm only 170 cm, 5'7", with a 29" inside leg. It's nicely lower than the Bacchetta Giro with 24"wheels I had a few years back. And the tiller steering doesn't "tiller" too much being quite vertical compared with some of the more laid-back racer-style recumbents.

IMG_3637.JPG

Did that pannier frame add much weight to the bike -- just that I notice how it has to be fixed to the main frame upstream of the rear swing arm instead of directly to the chainstay/seatstay but I suppose most recumbents are like that if they have rear suspension.

Here -- that's a fact that's just dawned on me as I typed that -- " a recumbent with rear suspension won't zap your power like a rear suspension MTB."

Am I right?

[pjclinch]

Did that pannier frame add much weight to the bike -- just that I notice how it has to be fixed to the main frame upstream of the rear swing arm instead of directly to the chainstay/seatstay but I suppose most recumbents are like that if they have rear suspension.

Yes, that's certainly the case on ours, and similarly rear racks on Moultons cantilever off the main frame rather than attach to the rear triangle somewhere.

Here -- that's a fact that's just dawned on me as I typed that -- " a recumbent with rear suspension won't zap your power like a rear suspension MTB."

Am I right?

It's implementation dependent, I think it's fair to say, though the way that the dead-spot pedalling is aligned fore/aft rather than up/down does probably help.

HP Velotechnik's publicity spiel for their "No-Squat" suspension design goes on about how it minimises suspension bob, and I've never really noticed much of it on the Streetmachine. When testing alternatives in NL I was riding behind a Rainbow Lyner (a touring design with a very similar overall layout and spec) and there was quite perceptible suspension bob on that with every turn of the pedal, so it's not a Given that you'll get rid of it without a bit of Applied Clever.

Also there's suspension and there's suspension. A 'bent's is typically designed for the road, lots of very small bumps, while a MTB is designed with rather bigger deflections in mind. If you ride an upright with suspension designed for the road (like a Moulton or a Birdy) the suspension bob only really becomes obvious if you're into mashing big gears out of the seat. Rear triangle movement on a Moulton is in the very low cm range, it's quite different to a full-sus MTB.

Pete.

[Lodge]

Did that pannier frame add much weight to the bike -- just that I notice how it has to be fixed to the main frame upstream of the rear swing arm instead of directly to the chainstay/seatstay but I suppose most recumbents are like that if they have rear suspension.

Here -- that's a fact that's just dawned on me as I typed that -- " a recumbent with rear suspension won't zap your power like a rear suspension MTB."

Am I right?

I’m afraid that I don’t know what she weighs at the moment - I’ll weigh her later when it’s finished. But the rack is made from aluminium so it’s not going to be too heavy. It’s an e-bike anyway, so not light. And I’m often carrying one or two spare batteries in panniers to get a 60 mile plus range in hilly terrain.

On my one 8 mile ride so far I didn’t notice any suspension squatting or bouncing as I pedalled, even using eco mode at 3 mph in first gear up the 24% gradient along the lane to the village where I live. The idler, on the power side of the chain, is inline with the swinging arm pivot, a design feature which will minimise torque reactions*. So yes, I suspect it shouldn’t be sapping power like on a MTB.

*The same as having the electric motor on my Zero motorcycle inline with the swinging arm pivot ensures no change in belt tension as the suspension moves, and minimises squatting when applying torque. My legs are rather less powerful than the motor on the Zero hence I can’t feel any torque reaction.

[Cowsham]

Here -- that's a fact that's just dawned on me as I typed that -- " a recumbent with rear suspension won't zap your power like a rear suspension MTB."

Am I right?

It's implementation dependent, I think it's fair to say, though the way that the dead-spot pedalling is aligned fore/aft rather than up/down does probably help.

HP Velotechnik's publicity spiel for their "No-Squat" suspension design goes on about how it minimises suspension bob, and I've never really noticed much of it on the Streetmachine. When testing alternatives in NL I was riding behind a Rainbow Lyner (a touring design with a very similar overall layout and spec) and there was quite perceptible suspension bob on that with every turn of the pedal, so it's not a Given that you'll get rid of it without a bit of Applied Clever.

Also there's suspension and there's suspension. A 'bent's is typically designed for the road, lots of very small bumps, while a MTB is designed with rather bigger deflections in mind. If you ride an upright with suspension designed for the road (like a Moulton or a Birdy) the suspension bob only really becomes obvious if you're into mashing big gears out of the seat. Rear triangle movement on a Moulton is in the very low cm range, it's quite different to a full-sus MTB.

Pete.

I was thinking cos your power stroke is inline with the suspension travel and pivoting away from you about the handlebars on a mountain bike whereas your power stroke is always pushing against a seat on the recumbent and not pivoting away from you. A bit like when squatting with weights in the gym where your lifting your own weight plus the weight on your back as opposed to pushing on a leg press machine. You'll lift more on the leg press.

[Blondie]

She lives! My Azub Mini, bought as a frame kit from Laid Back Bikes in Edinburgh, is now sufficiently complete to ride. Just in time for the worst of the winter weather. Hmm.

There's still a bit to do over the next weeks though. The Rohloff in the rear wheel is currently direct from my Tern Vektron but will be rebuilt with an Andra 29 rim so the Tern rim can go back from whence it came (albeit with original 10 speed derailleur). The front wheel is from a Hase Pino - this will also be fitted with an Andra rim and polished aluminium hub to match the Rohloff. And of course lights need to be fitted.

Good parts one keeps. I was so pleased to be able to not only transfer the Rohloff, but also to re-use a Shimano STEPS motor which was removed from a trike I sold on a couple of years ago. The Rohloff now has 29968 miles on it having seen service in a Patria Terra and ICE Sprint before the Tern Vektron. The Tektro 203/180mm disc brakes were originally on our Pino (but were not up to the steep slopes of the Peak District so were replaced with Hope ventilated discs). They should do well on a solo bike with plenty of power to control descents of the local 25% gradients even when loaded for touring.

IMG_0265.jpeg

Nice colour. Like it!

[a.twiddler]

The Azub certainly looks very similar to the Grasshopper. At 5'5" with a 28" inside leg I do have to plan ahead for getting on and off, bearing in mind the height of the boom. It's easier getting on than off. I suspect that's just a fact of life for those of us of below average height who want to ride recumbents. A good, well placed side stand is helpful in these circumstances in the absence of a convenient wall or post.

The weight of a rack is neither here or there in the grand scheme of things. Even if you have no plans for going touring some kind of luggage carrier is an essential item for recumbent riders, since you can't just sling a backpack on as you would with an upright bike for short trips. Of course there's always seat back bags, or banana racers but any self respecting non racing type bike ought to come with a rack.

I can compare the suspension systems of the HP Velo Spirit and the Grasshopper side by side. They both have "No Squat" on them somewhere, although the Grasshopper unit is horizontal while the Spirit one is more vertical. I would have thought the more vertical one would be more susceptible to pedal bounce but I haven't noticed any. I've done quite a few miles and longer day trips on the Spirit this year and there is no obvious power loss due to unwanted suspension movement. It's quite a short travel set up compared with the Grasshopper
which I haven't managed to fully test on uneven surfaces yet. On-road, it feels very good. The fore and aft power style of a recumbent helps here. I've read of it as being likened to "playing a trombone with your feet".

It might not be immediately obvious but when you think about it, the suspension will work better if the damper only has to deal with the weight of the suspension parts moving, with the luggage carrier and any loaded bags attached to the frame. The spring can be pre loaded to cope with varying overall weights.

It would be interesting to hear of the experiences of another relatively short recumbent rider with various bikes. I've learned from the Grasshopper that the X seam is not the only criterion for easy rideability. According to the manufacturer the Grasshopper is suitable for riders from 5'2" to over 6 feet but at 5'5" I struggle to get over that boom, having to lift a foot over the dipped portion ahead of the seat to get on and off. I see that the Azub has a very similar design. I suppose it's liveable with.

Like pjclinch I've not been able to make friends with the bodylink seat. As a used buyer it's a bit like Hobson's choice -you get what you get. The main gripe is the lack of angle adjustability, which the alternative mesh seat might not be able to improve on. Once my hip angle goes beyond a critical point, there's no pedalling power. At first, I thought it was just me not being used to the Grasshopper and the result of a recent spell of illness. I was actually feeling a bit down about it. Was I getting to the age that I should consider some electrical assistance? Then I went out on the Linear a few days ago and normal service was resumed. It just felt so good! Where was all that effort going on the Grasshopper when I could just sail along on the flat, and get up our local hills 1-2 mph faster on the Linear? the brakes weren't dragging, the wheels were turning freely so I could only put it down to the Grasshopper's seat angle. I can't really think of an easy (ie inexpensive) solution for this without hacking about a perfectly nice (and expensive) bike. And it is a very nice bike. It would be a shame not to be able to find a way to get the best out of it.

[pjclinch]

Like pjclinch I've not been able to make friends with the bodylink seat.

I don't dislike the Bodylink, but I've never been able to get it quite as right for me as the older non-adjustable "Medium" that came on the Streetmachine GT (without the 'e'), which is a bit ironic given the notional selling point of the Bodylink is the adjustability...

Pete.

[UpWrong]

It would be interesting to hear of the experiences of another relatively short recumbent rider with various bikes. I've learned from the Grasshopper that the X seam is not the only criterion for easy rideability. According to the manufacturer the Grasshopper is suitable for riders from 5'2" to over 6 feet but at 5'5" I struggle to get over that boom, having to lift a foot over the dipped portion ahead of the seat to get on and off. I see that the Azub has a very similar design. I suppose it's liveable with.

Yes, getting off is more difficult than stepping over. I have to lean the bike at pretty radical angles to step over in either direction. I have resorted to swapping a suspension fork to a fixed fork and putting narrower tyres on to lower my Nazca Paseo. I don't remember my Grasshopper being tricky but my Giro 20 could be. The RANS Stratus XP is bliss, so easy.