What are cycling conditions like in Milton Keynes and Welwyn Garden City?

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drossall
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Re: What are cycling conditions like in Milton Keynes and Welwyn Garden City?

Post by drossall »

axel_knutt wrote: 14 Jul 2022, 1:47pm Navigating the roads wasn't particularly easy because a repetitive rectilinear grid lined with featureless hedges makes it difficult to form any sense of where you are.
No, but at least you can get to Phil Corley's from the south side, which is typically what I've been trying to do, by following signs for Buckingham or Stratford. Path designers consistently fail to learn from experience building roads for cars, where you signpost for distant and sometimes vague places, such as The North or Birmingham, not necessarily because most drivers are going that far, but because they'll head that way to get from Watford to Rugby, and then pick up signs for Rugby and finally Crick when they get nearer. If cycle paths are ever signed, it tends to be for the next "village", which you've never heard of unless you're a local.

Also, at least in Stevenage, main paths going across town are not marked differently, in the way that A roads are from B and the rest, so there's no concept of one way being a through route vs another being likely to stop in some obscure park. All paths are created equal. Of course, ones running alongside A roads are likely to be through routes, but in practice they are often not, and it's critical whether you go up the left or right side of that A road if you don't want to get stuck somewhere.
Nearholmer
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Re: What are cycling conditions like in Milton Keynes and Welwyn Garden City?

Post by Nearholmer »

As I said before: satnav is your friend.

CycleStreets has all these paths, costs absolutely nothing, and, once you get your head around it’s quirks, provides good routes.

There are now ‘trunk route’ signs on the main MK paths, giving directions to main centres (unfortunately not including Phil Corley’s bike shop), but as with all path signs everywhere, they are prey to occasional reorientation by teenage boys.
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mjr
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Re: What are cycling conditions like in Milton Keynes and Welwyn Garden City?

Post by mjr »

Once upon a time, after getting lost in MK, I spotted a crucial path sign being used, inverted, as a washing line prop! And in Great Linford, not one of the tatty bits!

MK used to get signage right, with key destinations on the signs in CAPITALS, beneath the usual next suburb stuff. The move to standard TSRGD cycleway signs was a step backwards, at least at first, in part because the NCN routes (which used to be the only route ID allowed on standard signs) do not follow any logical route through the city.
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Nearholmer
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Re: What are cycling conditions like in Milton Keynes and Welwyn Garden City?

Post by Nearholmer »

part because the NCN routes (which used to be the only route ID allowed on standard signs) do not follow any logical route through the city.
So true! They have mo logic at all for use within the city.

I still scratch my head and wonder why parts of the two NCN routes run as they do, some of NCN6 being especially puzzling, and a ‘bypass option’ being needed on NCN51 for anyone not wanting to visit CMK, but that is being a bit curmudgeonly, because someone took the trouble to identify them, and it all must have made sense to them.

I wonder whether the OP is out there somewhere, reading all this?
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plancashire
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Re: What are cycling conditions like in Milton Keynes and Welwyn Garden City?

Post by plancashire »

Nearholmer wrote: 13 Jul 2022, 9:19pm MK is the nearest place to paradise that you will find in the U.K. in terms of utility cycling, not perfect, but as good as you’ll find.
...
I see a fair few people with trailers for children and dogs, but I think if you were to park one at a bike stand you’d need a decent length tether.
...
Best thing you can do is come and have a look (PM me for a guided tour).
...
A key point is to choose a location to live that is properly on the path network - Bletchley is poorly served by paths because it existed before the network is created, for instance, and is a target of the “gap filling” plan.

To say I’m an enthusiast of our path network might be an understatement!

Oh, helmets? On the paths, maybe 20% of cyclists.
Brilliant. Thanks. Sorry for the delay in replying - notification wasn't working but I was - busy.

Trailers is reassuring. I'd add shopping to kids and dogs. Low helmet use is good, contrary to another poster it says a lot about how safe people find the infrastructure, particularly in the UK cycling culture.

Thanks for the tour offer. I did go there and spent a pleasant afternoon following my nose and a navi from Poundland mostly down the green bit to the south, but sampling more urban areas too.

Thanks for the tip about Bletchley. That's a part we didn't visit.
I am NOT a cyclist. I enjoy riding a bike for utility, commuting, fitness and touring on tout terrain Rohloff, Brompton ML3 (2004) and Wester Ross 354 plus a Burley Travoy trailer.
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plancashire
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Re: What are cycling conditions like in Milton Keynes and Welwyn Garden City?

Post by plancashire »

colin54 wrote: 13 Jul 2022, 9:24pm ...
Some information here.
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Here's three videos of comedian Alexei Sayle cycling around MK to give you a flavour of it,
(contains swearing).
...
Edit , Stevenage the next large town north of Welwyn GC also has a network of separate paths.
Thanks. I'm a fan of the fat git in the tight suit.

We looked at bits of Stevenage and hated it. Yes, we saw the small number of paths on the map, nice if those are the only places you cycle. Almost nobody was using the one we saw near the centre, even at rush hour times. I took a photo of some bike parking stands behind a "no cycling" sign there.
I am NOT a cyclist. I enjoy riding a bike for utility, commuting, fitness and touring on tout terrain Rohloff, Brompton ML3 (2004) and Wester Ross 354 plus a Burley Travoy trailer.
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plancashire
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Re: What are cycling conditions like in Milton Keynes and Welwyn Garden City?

Post by plancashire »

Pendodave wrote: 13 Jul 2022, 9:51pm I live near wgc.
It's not terrible, but the nearby new towns (Stevenage/ Harlow/ hemel) are better for cycling infrastructure.
But I'd much rather live in wgc for other reasons.
Thanks. The middle of WGC looks nice but getting to it safely by bike looks difficult. Harlow might be worth a look, but a bit far east for us.
I am NOT a cyclist. I enjoy riding a bike for utility, commuting, fitness and touring on tout terrain Rohloff, Brompton ML3 (2004) and Wester Ross 354 plus a Burley Travoy trailer.
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plancashire
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Re: What are cycling conditions like in Milton Keynes and Welwyn Garden City?

Post by plancashire »

Nearholmer wrote: 13 Jul 2022, 9:55pm ...
Here’s the map he should have consulted (zoom in to get an idea of the density of cycling provision) https://getaroundmk.org.uk/wp-content/u ... Poster.pdf

I’m a bit confused by your ‘does anywhere near have exceptional cycling facilities?’ question. Are you asking which parts of the city are easiest to cycle to the station from? If so, the answer is ‘nearly all parts’, but distance from the station obviously varies, and housing quality and price vary too, so it’s a question of ‘how far do you want to cycle to the station, and how much do you want to pay for a house?’.
Thanks. OSM shows the density well, particularly the CycleOSM tiles.

I meant any other town. Distance from the station would not be too much of a problem with bikes, buses and legs.
I am NOT a cyclist. I enjoy riding a bike for utility, commuting, fitness and touring on tout terrain Rohloff, Brompton ML3 (2004) and Wester Ross 354 plus a Burley Travoy trailer.
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plancashire
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Re: What are cycling conditions like in Milton Keynes and Welwyn Garden City?

Post by plancashire »

drossall wrote: 13 Jul 2022, 10:37pm ...
The only problem I've found in MK, where the paths are extensive and do deal properly with road junctions, is navigating.
...
If you're looking for separated paths though, MK and Stevenage are your places.
Thanks. I have a navi based on OSM which worked when I visited MK in the summer. If it is separated paths, then MK it is, as we hated Stevenage.
I am NOT a cyclist. I enjoy riding a bike for utility, commuting, fitness and touring on tout terrain Rohloff, Brompton ML3 (2004) and Wester Ross 354 plus a Burley Travoy trailer.
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plancashire
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Re: What are cycling conditions like in Milton Keynes and Welwyn Garden City?

Post by plancashire »

Nearholmer wrote: 13 Jul 2022, 10:58pm
But of course, if you lived there, you'd soon get past that issue.
Well …….. I’ve lived in MK for forty years, and the path network is so extensive and complex that I still occasionally get lost within it!

The saviour is satnav, in the form of CycleStreets, which has every path mapped. Google street map has the main ones, but misses off a lot of smaller ones.
OpenStreetMap (OSM) has all paths so far as I could see when I visited. I use a Teasi. Other devices and software are available based on OSM. Please use OSM and update it if you find something missing or wrong. It is OUR map. Google and Ordnance Survey own and copyright their maps.
I am NOT a cyclist. I enjoy riding a bike for utility, commuting, fitness and touring on tout terrain Rohloff, Brompton ML3 (2004) and Wester Ross 354 plus a Burley Travoy trailer.
Nearholmer
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Re: What are cycling conditions like in Milton Keynes and Welwyn Garden City?

Post by Nearholmer »

CycleStreets runs over OSM, so what I’m suggesting amounts to the same thing.

Where OS beats OSM hands down is on rights of way, so worth paying for for that if you like cycling on bridleways, which I do.
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plancashire
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Re: What are cycling conditions like in Milton Keynes and Welwyn Garden City?

Post by plancashire »

robing wrote: 16 Jul 2022, 7:02am MK is great but Redways not really suitable for road bikes for the most part. I prefer to use my hybrid. And watch out for broken glass on the underpasses. But it's a great way to get around the city completely traffic free. And it's very green - lots of parks and lakes :D
Thanks. My bikes have sturdy tyres with puncture-proofing. Traffic-free is what we are after, similar to much of the riding we do here around Düsseldorf and in Germany more generally.
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plancashire
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Re: What are cycling conditions like in Milton Keynes and Welwyn Garden City?

Post by plancashire »

Nearholmer wrote: 16 Jul 2022, 9:16am As I said before: satnav is your friend.

CycleStreets has all these paths, costs absolutely nothing, and, once you get your head around it’s quirks, provides good routes.

There are now ‘trunk route’ signs on the main MK paths, giving directions to main centres (unfortunately not including Phil Corley’s bike shop), but as with all path signs everywhere, they are prey to occasional reorientation by teenage boys.
Thanks. I had not heard of CycleStreets before. It uses OSM base data: https://www.cyclestreets.net/about/ . Here we have publicly-funded route planners, such as the one for the state I live in: https://radservice.radroutenplaner.nrw. ... gi?lang=DE . It allows you to choose the surface, whether to use themed routes, etc. You can also add and move intermediate points. At the end you can download the route as a booklet, GPX file or some Google format they bought from keyhole.

The Dutch knooppunt system (German: Knotenpunkt) with numbered nodes is quite good if you have the whole map of nodes available. The signs all show the next node and distance to it.
I am NOT a cyclist. I enjoy riding a bike for utility, commuting, fitness and touring on tout terrain Rohloff, Brompton ML3 (2004) and Wester Ross 354 plus a Burley Travoy trailer.
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plancashire
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Re: What are cycling conditions like in Milton Keynes and Welwyn Garden City?

Post by plancashire »

mjr wrote: 16 Jul 2022, 4:39pm ...
MK used to get signage right, with key destinations on the signs in CAPITALS, beneath the usual next suburb stuff. The move to standard TSRGD cycleway signs was a step backwards, at least at first, in part because the NCN routes (which used to be the only route ID allowed on standard signs) do not follow any logical route through the city.
What is "only route ID allowed" all about? Allowed by whom? Here in Germany we have a huge number of named routes and each has a logo and these logos adorn all the bike signs, sometimes as additions bolted on underneath (see picture in the link below). Federalism and devolution of power has a lot to be said for it for local things like bike paths. OK, some states have red bike signs and some have green. We don't care.

I had to look up TSRGD: https://tsrgd.co.uk/ . In Germany bike path direction signs are NOT part of the StVO law that governs signs on the road, including those for bike lanes etc. The states decide, but there is a common catalogue: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildtafel ... eutschland .
I am NOT a cyclist. I enjoy riding a bike for utility, commuting, fitness and touring on tout terrain Rohloff, Brompton ML3 (2004) and Wester Ross 354 plus a Burley Travoy trailer.
willp01908
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Re: What are cycling conditions like in Milton Keynes and Welwyn Garden City?

Post by willp01908 »

Like Nearholmer, I live in MK and I`m also a bit of a fan of our city wide cycle provision. OK it`s not perfect, but it`s probably the best you`ll find in the UK on a number of levels.
I use it for nearly all my local cycling - shopping etc. and while not the fastest due to the design and poor upkeep in parts, it`s almost always pleasant.
My 5 mile daily commute takes me along a heavily wooded former railway and then along the canal through parkland. I only have to negotiate about 200m of quiet residential roads.
Would also happily show people around!
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