Front luggage
Front luggage
I've got a very nice little touring bike, fits me well (I'm 5'2") but even with using fairly lightweight camping gear (about 12 kilos) I'm finding there's a bit of a 'tail wagging dog' effect. Wondering what options there might be for carrying some of it on the front, but I've always been a bit reluctant to go for front panniers as there's then so many bags!
Any suggestions of options gratefully received, the bike has 32 x 559 wheels.
Any suggestions of options gratefully received, the bike has 32 x 559 wheels.
“My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything. The perfect day: riding a bike to the library.”
― Peter Golkin
― Peter Golkin
Re: Front luggage
We usually tour with two rear panniers, the tent or mats between them, and a bar bag each. They feel a bit rear heavy as I wheel them and as I set off riding but not once I'm going. And I agree about the desirability of having as few bags as possible.
Have you got the panniers as far forward and as low as possible, and the load ditto within the panniers?
Jonathan
Have you got the panniers as far forward and as low as possible, and the load ditto within the panniers?
Jonathan
Re: Front luggage
It’s very much your choice but i don’t think 12 kilos is light weight camping gear so I might focus on that first. Of course if you love your set up then that’s fine and I’m no expert on front panniers as I also avoid them. I do have a really large back ortlieb pro plus or something set when for when I’m camping with everything (ie carrying it for the kids) that takes 70 litres but I rarely use them.
Trying to think what I have camping gear wise (I haven’t camped slice the pandemic- I revised it before I went to the USA though as my old sleeping bag was huge):
Tent copper spur UL 1 bike packing which is 1100grams
thermarest down quilt 440grams
Neoair mat around 250grams
That’s my core stuff (I got the weights off the net and I’m sure I’ve forgotten a couple of bits and pieces). It is also my backup approach for when I’m doing a mixed trip with only some camping.
When mostly camping I don’t always cook but often take cooking gear as extra to this (and always take picnic gear even when not camping) and I sometimes take a helinox chair which is fab of an evening and adds 1.0 kg.
Trying to think what I have camping gear wise (I haven’t camped slice the pandemic- I revised it before I went to the USA though as my old sleeping bag was huge):
Tent copper spur UL 1 bike packing which is 1100grams
thermarest down quilt 440grams
Neoair mat around 250grams
That’s my core stuff (I got the weights off the net and I’m sure I’ve forgotten a couple of bits and pieces). It is also my backup approach for when I’m doing a mixed trip with only some camping.
When mostly camping I don’t always cook but often take cooking gear as extra to this (and always take picnic gear even when not camping) and I sometimes take a helinox chair which is fab of an evening and adds 1.0 kg.
Re: Front luggage
I liked the four pannier system myself, it just seemed best to share the load more equally between the two wheels. Also the bike was easier to handle when it had to be carried, up stairs onto a ferry or train etc. When taking luggage off the bike to go into a hostel or hotel I used the carrying handles on the panniers and could carry all four with the bar bag under one arm.
The fewer separate items the better, too many items and one would get left behind or get dropped at an awkward moment!
The fewer separate items the better, too many items and one would get left behind or get dropped at an awkward moment!
Re: Front luggage
4 panniers, low riders on the front forks (you have bosses for these already, on the out side only of the forks, Tubus Tara rack would fit).
It might me worth checking that your rear rack is fully rigid and the rack (or a not quite tight enough bolt) doesn't flex.
On my bike, 4 panniers plus a small (smaller than yours) handles very well, steers better with 4 panniers than with no panniers!: -
In the above photo, luggage was appox 7kg front, 10 kg rear - OK for 5 days and a good weather forecast (so fewer clothes!).
With a lot more luggage in the panniers and a large 7l bar bag (on a world tour) I got steering wobble*, putting the bar bag on the rear rack solved the issue. *A steering geometry/weight distribution thing, the rear rack (Blackburn was very rigid).
It is also related to steering geometry, the same luggage on another bike gives awful steering at low speeds (due to wheel flop), but still no tail wagging the dog.
It might me worth checking that your rear rack is fully rigid and the rack (or a not quite tight enough bolt) doesn't flex.
On my bike, 4 panniers plus a small (smaller than yours) handles very well, steers better with 4 panniers than with no panniers!: -
In the above photo, luggage was appox 7kg front, 10 kg rear - OK for 5 days and a good weather forecast (so fewer clothes!).
With a lot more luggage in the panniers and a large 7l bar bag (on a world tour) I got steering wobble*, putting the bar bag on the rear rack solved the issue. *A steering geometry/weight distribution thing, the rear rack (Blackburn was very rigid).
It is also related to steering geometry, the same luggage on another bike gives awful steering at low speeds (due to wheel flop), but still no tail wagging the dog.
Re: Front luggage
I turned the baggage around. Front panniers with light but bulky stuff such as sleeping bag and Trangia. Saddlebag with clothing and tools etc. Tent behind the saddlebag. That's a cape on top of the bag. That picture is from 2002, so I have refined things a little since.
Re: Front luggage
I would repeat what Johnathan said. Make sure your rear panniers are as far forward as possible. Just enough back to avoid heel strike.
I regularly take off my pannier hooks for transit and have found when refitting, even a few mms back from the best gives a noticeable tail wobble.
I love the way Ron says fronts make it easier to carry bike upstairs, etc. I can't carry my bike with only rears and need to unload. Purely due to weight and lack of strength, balance wouldn't help me, it's just too heavy.
I regularly take off my pannier hooks for transit and have found when refitting, even a few mms back from the best gives a noticeable tail wobble.
I love the way Ron says fronts make it easier to carry bike upstairs, etc. I can't carry my bike with only rears and need to unload. Purely due to weight and lack of strength, balance wouldn't help me, it's just too heavy.
Re: Front luggage
Yep i didn't understand how front panniers make it easier to get on trains. Platform to train gap pretty big on some brit train routes.
Sweep
Re: Front luggage
The bikepacking fashion has opened up a load more luggage options than the trad touring ones, if you can swallow the idea you might be considered too trendy there's loads of stuff that was not available a few years ago.
I also have a bike where the camping gear on the back doesn't feel great, I've bought a couple of fork bags, which I intend to use for around 4kg. I've attached with the one mid point boss and the supplied fittings for the other two attachment points. I haven't used them on that bike for touring yet, but a test ride felt fine and they worked well on another bike (That didn't really need them)
These ones, though they're out of stock:
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/BAPODTFBL ... (55-litre)
I also have a bike where the camping gear on the back doesn't feel great, I've bought a couple of fork bags, which I intend to use for around 4kg. I've attached with the one mid point boss and the supplied fittings for the other two attachment points. I haven't used them on that bike for touring yet, but a test ride felt fine and they worked well on another bike (That didn't really need them)
These ones, though they're out of stock:
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/BAPODTFBL ... (55-litre)
Re: Front luggage
I found with a load on the front of the bike it was better balanced and could be lifted more easily. Without a load on the front one arm was doing all the lifting and the other arm was keeping the front down.
On every tour there seemed to be a time when the bike had to be carried and for me this seemed the best way without having to take panniers off and put them back on.
We all have our own ways
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
Re: Front luggage
We've probably exhausted this topic on prevoius threads but just to reiterate, I find the four pannier set up simply brilliant - it works. On my week-long trip a week ago, I took four panniers, tent on rack, no bar bag. Simple, well balanced, convenient, stable, secure. And the trip did involve a couple of IETs (I put the bike on without unloading it first).
At one campsite I met two other cycle-campers (like buses, we come in threes!) both of whom had four panniers. Interestingly, they were both carrying around 20 - 22 kg of luggage, as was I. With that weight, I would say front panniers are essential.
The problem with this discussion usually is that it goes along the lines of, "well, if you got the weight down, you wouldn't need the front panniers!", which to my mind simply avoids the question.
It should be very easy for us "experts" on here (
) simply to say, below 14 kg (or should that be 12?), no fronts, above 12 - 14 kg, use front panniers (and incur the weight penalty of the front racks). Ideally the weight should be low, but for many people that isn't the case.
At one campsite I met two other cycle-campers (like buses, we come in threes!) both of whom had four panniers. Interestingly, they were both carrying around 20 - 22 kg of luggage, as was I. With that weight, I would say front panniers are essential.
The problem with this discussion usually is that it goes along the lines of, "well, if you got the weight down, you wouldn't need the front panniers!", which to my mind simply avoids the question.
It should be very easy for us "experts" on here (
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Re: Front luggage
Thanks all! To respond to advice/questions; - yes, bags as far forward as possible, but will check again; rack gets checked over daily (had a rack fail a few years ago which prompted me to do this); kit packed heaviest at front and low down - but the bike repair kit is in rear pocket so I'll see if I can find somewhere else to put it which is still accessible.
I've just spent a happy hour or so re-weighing my kit as I've tried to get things lighter over recent years, and less bulky. I'm carrying a bit less than I thought, total about 9 kilos. This is a list if anyone's interested:
CaraDura 40l panniers 0.9; Tent Zephyros Compact 1 1.55; Tent Footprint 0.2; Sleeping bag 1.2 Snugpak Softie 6; sleeping mat Alpkit Numo 0.4 + Blacks Ultralight SI Compact 0.5; mini pilllowcase 0.085; cooker, gas, 2 tiny pans, windshield, mini wooden stirrer, spork, pan grip, shallow plastic bowl, platypus water bottle, plastic mug, mini tin-opener, lighter 1.15; food: oat bars for breakfast, couscous, tinned mackerel, teabags, dried milk 0.6; clothing approx. 1.2 unless short tour or really warm; waterproofs 0.6; electronics, book, maps 0.6
I'm wondering about getting some bikepacking straps for the front forks, just wondering what would be best to carry there!
A lot of my kit is quite old, it works well and I'm fond of it, but I'm going to look at lighter kit - but I don't really want loads of expensive titanium stuff!
Cheers![Smile :-)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
I've just spent a happy hour or so re-weighing my kit as I've tried to get things lighter over recent years, and less bulky. I'm carrying a bit less than I thought, total about 9 kilos. This is a list if anyone's interested:
CaraDura 40l panniers 0.9; Tent Zephyros Compact 1 1.55; Tent Footprint 0.2; Sleeping bag 1.2 Snugpak Softie 6; sleeping mat Alpkit Numo 0.4 + Blacks Ultralight SI Compact 0.5; mini pilllowcase 0.085; cooker, gas, 2 tiny pans, windshield, mini wooden stirrer, spork, pan grip, shallow plastic bowl, platypus water bottle, plastic mug, mini tin-opener, lighter 1.15; food: oat bars for breakfast, couscous, tinned mackerel, teabags, dried milk 0.6; clothing approx. 1.2 unless short tour or really warm; waterproofs 0.6; electronics, book, maps 0.6
I'm wondering about getting some bikepacking straps for the front forks, just wondering what would be best to carry there!
A lot of my kit is quite old, it works well and I'm fond of it, but I'm going to look at lighter kit - but I don't really want loads of expensive titanium stuff!
Cheers
![Smile :-)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
“My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything. The perfect day: riding a bike to the library.”
― Peter Golkin
― Peter Golkin
Re: Front luggage
I've gone for the tent in one and wash kit plus some little used spares in the bottom of the other, it's a useful sized bag to take to the washroom.Slowroad wrote: ↑18 Jul 2022, 1:38pm I'm wondering about getting some bikepacking straps for the front forks, just wondering what would be best to carry there!
A lot of my kit is quite old, it works well and I'm fond of it, but I'm going to look at lighter kit - but I don't really want loads of expensive titanium stuff!
Cheers![]()
Re: Front luggage
Apologies if you have said slowroad, but can we ask what your rack is?
Might also be handy to see pic of bike and rack without luggage obscuring it.
If you like the kit you use I wouldn't be inclined to go down the lightweight buying route, but seek other solutions. Am sure there will be one.
Your kit doesn't strike me as excessive.
Might also be handy to see pic of bike and rack without luggage obscuring it.
If you like the kit you use I wouldn't be inclined to go down the lightweight buying route, but seek other solutions. Am sure there will be one.
Your kit doesn't strike me as excessive.
Sweep
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- Joined: 14 Jun 2009, 11:27am
- Location: In Wales
Re: Front luggage
Agree. Kit weight doesn't seem excessive.....so first consider if you can sort the waggle otherwise. I use a Tubus logo rack at the back and am wondering if a lower position as well as fore/aft positioning needs to be investigated. A new rack would be cheeper and more sustainable than changing all the kit that you already have a relationship with.......remember it's been looking after you all this time....it's been there for you.....so you shouldn't just jump to a " dear John"
Just for info: I've been a committed 4 pannier user for eons. The balance on my tourer is better .....keeps the front wheel on the ground on steep hills and loose surfaces....can cycle no handed (in case I want to copy Chris Froome) .....more flexible for loading as can set out with spare space..which may be useful when the Missus sees some essential present she needs me to lug home.....or I see that the family packs of crisps are on special offer. I use Vaude or Ortlieb roller type bags ...so no pockets. Pockets can be very handy...but I got fed up with stuff getting wet. With 4 bags there's more flexibility to distribute , so the stuff you need to get at quick is at the top. I tend to pack so tools food cooking kit & day things are at the front.
( should note the top part of the rack on my Logo is a bit narrow ...but fine if you strap the tent lenghwise)
The bags all get used on other bikes in various combinations. Even on a shortish day ride we use a front bag on the back ...which means we can bring back some food and reduce the car use.
Just for info: I've been a committed 4 pannier user for eons. The balance on my tourer is better .....keeps the front wheel on the ground on steep hills and loose surfaces....can cycle no handed (in case I want to copy Chris Froome) .....more flexible for loading as can set out with spare space..which may be useful when the Missus sees some essential present she needs me to lug home.....or I see that the family packs of crisps are on special offer. I use Vaude or Ortlieb roller type bags ...so no pockets. Pockets can be very handy...but I got fed up with stuff getting wet. With 4 bags there's more flexibility to distribute , so the stuff you need to get at quick is at the top. I tend to pack so tools food cooking kit & day things are at the front.
( should note the top part of the rack on my Logo is a bit narrow ...but fine if you strap the tent lenghwise)
The bags all get used on other bikes in various combinations. Even on a shortish day ride we use a front bag on the back ...which means we can bring back some food and reduce the car use.
old fangled