Front luggage

[Slowroad]

Apologies if you have said slowroad, but can we ask what your rack is?
Might also be handy to see pic of bike and rack without luggage obscuring it.
If you like the kit you use I wouldn't be inclined to go down the lightweight buying route, but seek other solutions. Am sure there will be one.
Your kit doesn't strike me as excessive.

Good thinking Sweep - it's a Topeak Uni Explorer, one of very few that would fit. (Same with the mudguards, I was very pleased to get them!) Here's a couple of pics showing the rack now, and a couple showing luggage on the old and new rack - actually they look pretty much identical, though I did think the new rack was slightly further back.

New rack

Old rack

[Tangled Metal]

Bike- bag dot com do custom frame bags. I got one with a full frame bag in two compartments and a map pocket the other side. It had hydration port and internal pole straps in the top pocket. Estimated capacity 11 litres. With a 9 litre bar bag it kind of helped.

The bar bag was lightly loaded with light waterproof, wallet, etc.

The frame bag had a 2 litre bladder, tent poles, pegs, books, maps, and a few heavier stuff in the lower compartment. Not as good as front panniers for load balance but certainly better than all on the back.

IME the bar bag doesn't help with balance, it's too high up and out front. The frame bag I think helped. I'm a fan of the company I mentioned. I think they're bigger than when I bought from them. They seemed to be moving into bike luggage back then from buggy bags. Those are pushchair buggies but also land yacht or kite buggies.

[Slowroad]

I turned the baggage around. Front panniers with light but bulky stuff such as sleeping bag and Trangia. Saddlebag with clothing and tools etc. Tent behind the saddlebag. That's a cape on top of the bag. That picture is from 2002, so I have refined things a little since.

tour1.jpg

Hi tatanab - I recognise the front bags, I've got some rear ones, still useable after 33 years! I only use them on my bigger Raleigh tourer as it'd drown Little Merc.

[Sweep]

Apologies if you have said slowroad, but can we ask what your rack is?
Might also be handy to see pic of bike and rack without luggage obscuring it.
If you like the kit you use I wouldn't be inclined to go down the lightweight buying route, but seek other solutions. Am sure there will be one.
Your kit doesn't strike me as excessive.

Good thinking Sweep - it's a Topeak Uni Explorer, one of very few that would fit. (Same with the mudguards, I was very pleased to get them!) Here's a couple of pics showing the rack now, and a couple showing luggage on the old and new rack - actually they look pretty much identical, though I did think the new rack was slightly further back.
IMG_20220718_151938819.jpg
IMG_20220718_151909601.jpg
DSC02891b.JPG
DSC02085.JPG

mm
I think the rack may be the issue - or offer a solution.
Seems to have that "vertical strut" arrangement at the bottom which I think is problematical.
( * edit hard to see - is there some sort of extender on the rack at the bottom? - seems to be more than a single bolt/fastening)
Rack also seems a bit high which surely (tho I'm no engineer) might accentuate swinging?
also have a certain concern about those struts linking it to the bike.

I would try a Tubus.
They are not cheap but as hoogerbooger says cheaper than buying lots of expensive gram saving stuff that may actually be less suitable.

Have only ever had rear wagging once - on a bike a bit smaller than I now use with a Tortec Expedition rack. Not a bad rack but nowhere near as good as a Tubus. Also has that vertical strut thing at the bottom.

As I said not Tubus racks not cheap, but you can swap the rack to any other bike you might have as needed for touring. Or swap to new bikes in the future. I have a Tubus on a hybrid I bought for £30 (bike) (OK - I added bits to it) and use as a good tourer.

[andrew_s]

My touring luggage goes, depending on how much I'm taking, in the following progression...
* Carradice saddlebag
* Carradice saddlebag plus front roll
* Carradice saddlebag plus front low-rider panniers
* Front & rear panniers
* Front & rear panniers plus Carradice saddlebag

I have used rear panniers only, but suffered from the tail wagging the dog, so I tend to avoid it.
When carrying front & rear, I tend to put a fair amount of weight in the front, with bulky items in the rear. The steering feels heavy to start with, but that wears off after a day or so.

I tend to avoid handlebar bags as they get in the way of lights, GPS etc, as well as sometimes making the steering wobbly. The "take with you" stuff that normally lives in a handlebar bag goes in a waist bag that lives in the top of wherever the bike lock is.

[foxyrider]

I'm not surprised you've previously had rack issues with all that lot sat on a bit of kit designed for occasional use with minimal weight. Your kit weight is a bit of a red herring, a separate issue to bike stability, lighter kit might help but if its still in the wrong place all you'll have is less wobbling. I'm known for being a bit of a weight weany but that is largely due to flight restrictions and me being a tight wad!

Ideally you want something like a 40/60 split front/rear on your load for bike stability and the nearer to BB/hub level the better too.

Amrun ferry port, Germany 2015


This is the set up i use for camping, if i B&B the front bags go on the rear. This translates to my Airnimal too.

Barbag - valuables
front panniers - clothing
rear panniers - kitchen/bathroom in one, tent/bedroom in't other
seatpack - tools and spares.

The barbag weighs @ 1.5kg loaded, the front bags @5kg/pr then at the back the seatpack is @ 1kg and the big bags maybe 8kg/pr, the panniers are reasonably balanced side to side too. No bag is full, i could get everything in two rear bags but i wouldn't want to. The seperate tool/spares bag means a one stop repair station and virtually no chance of contaminating other gear with mucky stuff. The top of the rack is usually empty but can be used for jackets, supplies or as i do wuth the Chameleon, strap the travel bag there.

The five bag set up is easy to use, i only have to open 1 bag to set up camp, a boon if its wet/windy, if i need to lift or walk the bike its very stable, i can if neccesary carry all the bags in one go. It also spreads the load over the bike, i get better rear tyre wear (really important on the Airnimal), i rarely have rear wheel issues and as i use Tubus racks, never had any sort of failure relating to the carriers. Its possible to ride this set up 'no hands', not that i make a habit of it, never yet managed that on a tail heavy set up.

Compare that to previous set ups that i used for touring, big triple bag set or pair big rear bags, very steering light and innumerable wheel issues and before that a big saddlebag - well that just used to wag all over the place, most disconcerting with all that 'loose' weight so high up.

Your forks appear to have lorider mounts, i'd be inclined to go that route even if you then used bike packing stuff, just as better stability for the load.

[Slowroad]

mm
I think the rack may be the issue - or offer a solution.
Seems to have that "vertical strut" arrangement at the bottom which I think is problematical.
( * edit hard to see - is there some sort of extender on the rack at the bottom? - seems to be more than a single bolt/fastening)
Rack also seems a bit high which surely (tho I'm no engineer) might accentuate swinging?
also have a certain concern about those struts linking it to the bike.

I would try a Tubus.
They are not cheap but as hoogerbooger says cheaper than buying lots of expensive gram saving stuff that may actually be less suitable.

Have only ever had rear wagging once - on a bike a bit smaller than I now use with a Tortec Expedition rack. Not a bad rack but nowhere near as good as a Tubus. Also has that vertical strut thing at the bottom.

As I said not Tubus racks not cheap, but you can swap the rack to any other bike you might have as needed for touring. Or swap to new bikes in the future. I have a Tubus on a hybrid I bought for £30 (bike) (OK - I added bits to it) and use as a good tourer.

Thanks - the rack itself is solid as a rock on the bike and the luggage cannot go any further forward or my heels would hit it. I'm not sure that spending over £100 on yet another rack would make enough difference. It's a really useful discussion though!

[Tangled Metal]

I got a tortec rack with a higher weight limit. Won't help the wobble due to overloaded back end.

If you can't get a lowrider front rack get a full frame bag made up and a bar bag plus stem bags and top tube bags. You might be able to get dry bags in fork frames that attach to forks without the rack bosses. There used to be old mountain something racks. They were heavy duty touring rack company and a few models worked without the fixing points most front racks need.

I think the only thing to truly help is taking the weight off the back and putting some of it elsewhere. A frame bag that can take heavy items puts the weight in the best place. Like on my touring recumbent central rack. That makes the loaded handling better than completely unloaded riding.

[pjclinch]

Tour on a recumbent these days which does luggage significantly better... but without that option I'll note I never found using front panniers on my old drop-bar tourer problematical to ride (bit of a pain manhandling the bike, but not riding it).

However, the main thing I did to prevent rear-end waggle in my early touring days was to start using lower gearing at a higher cadence, stay in the saddle and if I did have to get out of it then to try and keep the frame as laterally still as possible. All of these make for less side-to-side motion with each pedal stroke and that helps keep the load calm. If you're already more at the high cadence end of the spinner/masher spectrum that won't really help, of course...

For the rack, if you can find one with rather more substantial connections to the tops of the seat-stays than the half-twist metal sheet variety it looks like you have, I think that would stand a good chance of reducing sway.

Pete.

[PH]

my bigger Raleigh tourer

Have you tried the same rack and luggage on this bike? That ought to give you an idea if it's the rack, luggage or bike. I wouldn't dismiss the idea it might be the rack, however solid it feels, I'd try not to spend £100 on a new one if it wasn't needed either!
That looks like a lot of bulk for the weight, my touring load comes in at 11kg but it packs a good bit smaller than that. Though the problem with weight comparisons is there's no standard for what's included.

[hoogerbooger]

If the rack definitely isn't wobbling.......and the bags don't have free movement to wobble sideways.....and there is no heel room to move them forward.........

......then you can try lowering the bags towards the centre of the wheel.......which would need a different rack ......or redistributing the weight by changing to 4 bags..... both options will cost money.

Do you know anyone with a front rack and bags that you could borrow to test ? Seems very likely to solve the waggle....but it'd be reassuring that the money is well spent.

(The tourer I mainly use is a 559 converted mountain bike, with a tubus tara on the front and logo on the back. I gave up on alloy racks due to them fatiguing and failing mid tour.....Tubus are expensive but if you have some years in you worth the investment)

[Tangled Metal]

Tortec expedition rack is what I got. Lower pannier side rails, solid bars to seat stays and higher weight limit at 35kg instead of 25 or even 15kg some have. That's with ortliebs and a 25 litre dry bag on top with a tent too if needed and not put in the panniers. I think the stronger rack and lower mounting can only help. They're not that expensive like tubus racks are.

I'm a fan of bike-bag dot com. £60 for a 2 compartment frame bag to move weight forward and lower down can also help. Pretty good value I think.

[drossall]

4 panniers, low riders on the front forks (you have bosses for these already, on the out side only of the forks, Tubus Tara rack would fit).

I don't tour extensively (mostly it's keeping up my reputation of cycling to Scout camps, which tend to be only a few tens of miles away), so not sure I'm an expert. But just to back this comment up. My Mercian has a similar set of fittings to yours, and the Tara was the best rack for them. By contrast, the well-known alternatives that I looked at needed fittings on both sides of each fork - outside and inside. It was some years ago that I set my bike up, and things may have changed, but it's still going strong.

Personally I can't see why you'd use fork bags when you've got pannier fittings - although I can see why you wouldn't put panniers on a proper mountain bike!

[PH]

Personally I can't see why you'd use fork bags when you've got pannier fittings - although I can see why you wouldn't put panniers on a proper mountain bike!

A pair of Ortlieb front rollers and a Tarra rack costs £180 and weighs 2.5kg.
The front bags from Planet X I linked to cost £35 and weigh 800g

It isn't a fair comparison, the PX stuff isn't Ortlieb quality and the capacity is very different, 8ltr Vs 25. Still if the intention is to move a bit of weight forward and you don't need the capacity, then it seems a reasonable option.

[CJ]

Put luggage on the front if you must, but be very careful how you do it, as anything that can become caught in a front wheel is liable to stop it going round. You would be amazed at how much damage can be done to the front of a bicycle - not to mention it's rider - by something as innocuous as a towel in a plastic bag! So think twice before simply strapping stuff onto your forks and think again after giving it a darned good shake and a few really strong pulls this way and that toward the wheel. Then ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky?

Even purpose-made front luggage carriers are not necessarily safe. In my 31 years as CTC Technical Officer and private work as an expert witness I've seen the unfortunate results of some very inadequate designs (there still is no techincal standard for front carriers - only rear - so it's up to every designer to make their own more-or-less educated guesses) and wrong fitment of sound designs - by supposedy qualified bikeshop mechanics no less! Some of the riders suffered life-changing injuries. So I would not put any front rack on any bike of mine or my loved ones, that comes from a manufacturer with anything less than an excellent record for similar products. And I would not let any person fit it without long experience of not only cycle mechanics but also cycle touring.

Some of the recent 'bikepacking' solutions look well dodgy to me. But as CTC no longer has anyone collecting and analysing feedback from touring cyclists, about what equipment works for them and what doesn't, it's unlikely we'll ever really know.