Cycling UK Forum

Sweep wrote: ↑28 Jul 2022, 11:37am
No plans to take my bike up everest in winter.

Fair enough, though one thing that's very much a summer issue that causes me to cook inside is When Midges Attack.
Maybe you've never been in a proper cloud of the wee beasties in NW Scotland, but I'd guess if you have and still choose to cook outside then either you're made of much sterner stuff than me or you're perhaps unreasonably fearful of burning your tent down!

(I brought up winter mountaineering as a case when just about everyone always cooks inside, so a context that shows that cooking in a tent is not a fundamental No, rather than a suggestion that you might want to be doing it on a bike tour.
Having said that I do cook outside when it's not actively unpleasant to do so, because it is safer)

Pete.

pjclinch wrote: ↑31 Jul 2022, 8:53am

Sweep wrote: ↑28 Jul 2022, 11:37am
No plans to take my bike up everest in winter.

Fair enough, though one thing that's very much a summer issue that causes me to cook inside is When Midges Attack.
Maybe you've never been in a proper cloud of the wee beasties in NW Scotland, but I'd guess if you have and still choose to cook outside then either you're made of much sterner stuff than me or you're perhaps unreasonably fearful of burning your tent down!

Yep I have faced midges camping in scotland. Terrible. Psychological warfare - was almost reduced to tears - female partner thought me weak but I think they preferred the smell of me to her. I wouldn't let the sods win by driving me into a tent to fire up a stove though - that's probably their devillish plan.
Can't remember whether I persisted with cooking that time - long time ago when car camping with small tent (not even a porch. Definitely remember retreating to tent - quite possible that we resorted to snacks rather than cooking.

I've found the porches in every one of my tents to be too small to have a stove going so if needs must, I'll use the inner tent. Not done it in either of my tunnel tents as even those are too small but the decathlon dome and vango whatsitsname style are plenty high enough if ventilated (in my humble opinion) for a stove to be safely used. Unless you're me in which case anything is dangerous

One thing to think about is what the stove is standing on especially if like mine the fuel source is separate from the burner. I managed to melt a patch of my tent footprint when cooking inside the porch (yes I do that as well!), on one trip. These days I carry a small sheet of thick aluminium foil to go under the burner. My stove is the original Primus ETA Packlite, which I like a lot, but when the (supplied) windshield is fitted the base can get pretty hot.

gloomyandy wrote: ↑5 Aug 2022, 10:49amThese days I carry a small sheet of thick aluminium foil to go under the burner.

Aluminium foil is an excellent conductor of heat. I'd expect an insulator to work better.

Jonathan

What I liked about the Trangia is that you could cook outside in a gale. And I later considered it perfectly OK to use it in the rain. So now I sit in the porch and the Trangia stands outside.

What put me off using it inside is that very occasionally I get a yellow flame flare-up. This might be me doing something wrong but until I find out what, it stays outside.

On the other hand, a recent trip in a largish cotton ridge tent using a Campingaz double burner (both carried by car I must add) saw me cooking in the porch with no worries at all. The Campingaz was stable and low, the gas (from a Calor bottle) was controlled and predictable and the tent fabric cotton.

Jdsk wrote: ↑5 Aug 2022, 10:54am
Aluminium foil is an excellent conductor of heat. I'd expect an insulator to work better.

Jonathan

The foil I use comes from the base of a take away type tray that was available from one of the few shops in Tarbert on the Isle of Harris which was where I was when I first hit the problem. That was about 8 years ago now and I've been using it ever since with no further damage to the protector or anything else I've used the stove on.

So it works for me, but perhaps some sort of silicone mat would be a better (though probably heavier) option.

Jdsk wrote: ↑5 Aug 2022, 10:54am

gloomyandy wrote: ↑5 Aug 2022, 10:49amThese days I carry a small sheet of thick aluminium foil to go under the burner.

Aluminium foil is an excellent conductor of heat. I'd expect an insulator to work better.

As would I.
Stoves tend to come with a thick foil base made of the same stuff the windshield is made of and this is handy for reflecting a bit of heat back up and flattening any long grass that might otherwise get toasted, but they're not great insulators by any stretch of the imagination.

A wee bit of closed cell foam would be better (hot things on to self inflating mats can delaminate them... don't ask me how I know this!)

I'm not completely sold on footprints that cover porch space TBH. This is one issue, nowhere to pour stuff is another, it'll tend to get wet and dirty when you come in from the wet and if it's wet and dirty what's the point? Plus it's extra weight and bulk.

Pete.

I'd expect foil to work very well if the aim is to prevent scorched or burnt grass. In that case, the problem is not conducted heat as it would be with a barbecue – because the burner is not usually directly on the ground, and it's heat is directed upwards, it's the flame itself spreading either under a pot, or in wind (including when blowing it out).

Some countries have a 'total fire ban' at certain times of the year. This includes camping stoves.

I know Australia often has them and think some Southern Euro countries may. I wonder if/how long before we have them in the UK.

axel_knutt wrote: ↑25 Jul 2022, 5:22pm

Psamathe wrote: ↑25 Jul 2022, 12:00pm How people behave in such times is "interesting" (and scary). My grass (as all grass round me) has been brown and crisp for weeks (East Anglia). News reporting horrendous fires around and my neighbour still goes ahead enjoying the good weather to have a boozy barbecue. Other neighbours were really quite worried by it all.

Makes you wonder how the UK fires were not a lot worse given the lack of common sense some seem to exhibit.

My neighbour was having a barbie on 40C Tuesday despite all the pleas that day not to have them. (Also East Anglia)

Someone yesterday was using one of those blowtorch "weed wands" on their brown, dry lawn. Do different... we rode off briskly, hoping to get clear before the inevitable grass fire started.

Bmblbzzz wrote: ↑5 Aug 2022, 2:04pm I'd expect foil to work very well if the aim is to prevent scorched or burnt grass. In that case, the problem is not conducted heat as it would be with a barbecue – because the burner is not usually directly on the ground, and it's heat is directed upwards, it's the flame itself spreading either under a pot, or in wind (including when blowing it out).

Good point about direct contact with flames. The barrier does need to be flameproof.

But I'd still prefer it to be insulating

Jonathan

Given the amount of tinder dry material around, we ought to be hyper careful with any naked flames at the moment. I have just returned from walking the dog across several fields, any of which could be set alight very easily. I'd only light a stove if it were on stone or concrete and several metres from combustible vegetation. Ideally with some water to hand in case of mishaps. Better still, forsake the coffee in favour of a cold drink, and have a cold salad instead of pasta.

If using a meths stove, while it's a good idea to have water in case you need it to pour on burning grass, you need a snuffer of some sort to extinguish the meths. Pouring water on burning liquid is likely to spread it.

gloomyandy wrote: ↑5 Aug 2022, 11:27am

Jdsk wrote: ↑5 Aug 2022, 10:54am
Aluminium foil is an excellent conductor of heat. I'd expect an insulator to work better.

Jonathan

The foil I use comes from the base of a take away type tray that was available from one of the few shops in Tarbert on the Isle of Harris which was where I was when I first hit the problem. That was about 8 years ago now and I've been using it ever since with no further damage to the protector or anything else I've used the stove on.

So it works for me, but perhaps some sort of silicone mat would be a better (though probably heavier) option.

There’s nothing like the voice of experience and whilst the best is what most of us aim for less than the best is almost always perfectly adequate for what we want to achieve.

I suspect that the thick foil works because it stops direct contact with both flames and heat sources, it reflects radiated heat, and it dissipates heat (removing hot spots) across its surface via conduction. My instinct is that an insulating matt would be a better barrier than alloy foil, however maybe in practise it’s not usefully better but rather just another solution.