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Stoves - fire safe?
Posted: 25 Jul 2022, 8:05am
by Sweep
In view of recent terrible events in the UK, just idly seeking reassurance I suppose.
Have no plans ever when wild camping to light a fire (only ever did once, in Sardinia, surrounded by earth, nothing to burn - had to carry wood in)
so just a stove.
No fire risk at all freecamping unless you were daft enough to sit it on bracken or something and knock it over?
(oh - and won't be using any "disposable" barbecues either.)
Re: Stoves - fire safe?
Posted: 25 Jul 2022, 8:33am
by Pebble
yep, perfectly safe for an intelligent thoughtful person to use. Britain is not a wash with these though, dump all your rubbish on top of your disposable barbecue and then speed off in your car leaving it all to burn
Re: Stoves - fire safe?
Posted: 25 Jul 2022, 10:05am
by Jdsk
It can be acceptably safe. Always worth going through a checklist again. If you've already excluded a campfire here's one for stoves:
https://thegeekycamper.com/camping-stove-safety/
Jonathan
Re: Stoves - fire safe?
Posted: 25 Jul 2022, 11:18am
by Vantage
It depends on the user really.
You'll remember from my WOTR tour that I damn near burnt my tent down because a gust of wind blew the unsecured tent door over the too close to the tent burning stove
Another time, Pam had turned the gas cannister upside down to get the last of the gas on my advice. I also suggested she hold the cannister in the air for a few seconds to get the gas flowing through the line. Opened the valve but didn't light the stove straight way. When she did light it, the whole stove went up in flames as the gas had poured out. The warden had a chuckle when I explained the burn marks on the picnic table.
The latest act of incompetence was when yours truly attempted to light the stove while inside my new tent. For whatever reason, I packed it away with the valve fully opened. Cue a torrent of gas spewing out when I screwed the two together. Thinking it had all dried and evaporated I lit the stove. Given the size of the fireball that erupted, it's a miracle that neither I or the tent suffered any damage.
Re: Stoves - fire safe?
Posted: 25 Jul 2022, 12:00pm
by Psamathe
How people behave in such times is "interesting" (and scary). My grass (as all grass round me) has been brown and crisp for weeks (East Anglia). News reporting horrendous fires around and my neighbour still goes ahead enjoying the good weather to have a boozy barbecue. Other neighbours were really quite worried by it all.
Makes you wonder how the UK fires were not a lot worse given the lack of common sense some seem to exhibit.
I did go camping for a night middle of the heatwave and was lucky as campsite had put rings of breeze blocks to make "fire pits" so I "borrowed" a couple of those blocks to make a platform for my gas stove keeping hot stuff well clear of any dried grass. Campsite owner still turned-up asking if I wanted to buy any firewood!
Ian
Re: Stoves - fire safe?
Posted: 25 Jul 2022, 5:00pm
by iandriver
Psamathe wrote: ↑25 Jul 2022, 12:00pm
Makes you wonder how the UK fires were not a lot worse given the lack of common sense some seem to exhibit.
Ian
Chatting to the farmer who backs onto where I work in east anglia. They stopped harvesting in the heatwave. Last time they tried last year, the combine harvester hitting the flints in the ground set fire to one field three times. If this is anything to go by, then farmers fields going up all over the place at a very hot harvest time may be one explanation.
Re: Stoves - fire safe?
Posted: 25 Jul 2022, 5:08pm
by Bmblbzzz
Vantage wrote: ↑25 Jul 2022, 11:18am
It depends on the user really.
You'll remember from my WOTR tour that I damn near burnt my tent down because a gust of wind blew the unsecured tent door over the too close to the tent burning stove
Another time, Pam had turned the gas cannister upside down to get the last of the gas on my advice. I also suggested she hold the cannister in the air for a few seconds to get the gas flowing through the line. Opened the valve but didn't light the stove straight way. When she did light it, the whole stove went up in flames as the gas had poured out. The warden had a chuckle when I explained the burn marks on the picnic table.
The latest act of incompetence was when yours truly attempted to light the stove while inside my new tent. For whatever reason, I packed it away with the valve fully opened. Cue a torrent of gas spewing out when I screwed the two together. Thinking it had all dried and evaporated I lit the stove. Given the size of the fireball that erupted, it's a miracle that neither I or the tent suffered any damage.
Oh dear.
But a question. In the third (!!!) incident, when you say "attempted to light the stove while inside my new tent" do you mean in the porch, or completely inside the tent: actually inside the inner tent?
Re: Stoves - fire safe?
Posted: 25 Jul 2022, 5:22pm
by axel_knutt
Psamathe wrote: ↑25 Jul 2022, 12:00pm
How people behave in such times is "interesting" (and scary). My grass (as all grass round me) has been brown and crisp for weeks (East Anglia). News reporting horrendous fires around and my neighbour still goes ahead enjoying the good weather to have a boozy barbecue. Other neighbours were really quite worried by it all.
Makes you wonder how the UK fires were not a lot worse given the lack of common sense some seem to exhibit.
My neighbour was having a barbie on 40C Tuesday despite all the pleas that day not to have them. (Also East Anglia)
iandriver wrote: ↑25 Jul 2022, 5:00pm
Chatting to the farmer who backs onto where I work in east anglia. They stopped harvesting in the heatwave. Last time they tried last year, the combine harvester hitting the flints in the ground set fire to one field three times. If this is anything to go by, then farmers fields going up all over the place at a very hot harvest time may be one explanation.
There was a field fire on Look East last week that had been started by the harvester catching a flint.
Re: Stoves - fire safe?
Posted: 25 Jul 2022, 6:40pm
by Sweep
good sensible advice, though this is way over the top I think, and I'd ignore.
"Thus, don’t use a windscreen unless your stove’s manufacturer specifically says that it’s okay."
Re: Stoves - fire safe?
Posted: 25 Jul 2022, 6:43pm
by Sweep
Vantage wrote: ↑25 Jul 2022, 11:18am
It depends on the user really.
You'll remember from my WOTR tour that I damn near burnt my tent down because a gust of wind blew the unsecured tent door over the too close to the tent burning stove
Another time, Pam had turned the gas cannister upside down to get the last of the gas on my advice. I also suggested she hold the cannister in the air for a few seconds to get the gas flowing through the line. Opened the valve but didn't light the stove straight way. When she did light it, the whole stove went up in flames as the gas had poured out. The warden had a chuckle when I explained the burn marks on the picnic table.
The latest act of incompetence was when yours truly attempted to light the stove while inside my new tent. For whatever reason, I packed it away with the valve fully opened. Cue a torrent of gas spewing out when I screwed the two together. Thinking it had all dried and evaporated I lit the stove. Given the size of the fireball that erupted, it's a miracle that neither I or the tent suffered any damage.
you lit a stove inside a tent?
You really are lucky to be with us vantage.
I'd never use any stove inside a tent - not even in a porch, though I know some do. If the weather's too bad for cooking, I just retire with some snacks and a beer or two.
I wouldn't even keep a stove in the tent unlit.
Re: Stoves - fire safe?
Posted: 27 Jul 2022, 11:05am
by pjclinch
Sweep wrote: ↑25 Jul 2022, 6:43pm
you lit a stove inside a tent?
You really are lucky to be with us vantage.
I'd never use any stove inside a tent - not even in a porch, though I know some do. If the weather's too bad for cooking, I just retire with some snacks and a beer or two.
I wouldn't even keep a stove in the tent unlit.
While this is in line with the Official Instructions that accompany stoves and tents it's not really tenable for quite a lot of people at least some of the time, e.g. winter mountaineering with a blizzard going on outside and a huge need for warmth and calories it's just a fact of life that people will and do cook inside.
Particularly if you've decent porches, even more so if you've got a dismountable inner, it's really not that hard to engineer a safe cooking environment with suitable ventilation and surrounding space. There are tents I wouldn't want to cook inside... but not the sort I'd buy, because one of my tick-boxes is "must be something I'd be happy to cook inside". Even with a suitable tent you do need to be careful... so you are careful.
Pete.
Re: Stoves - fire safe?
Posted: 27 Jul 2022, 11:18am
by Bmblbzzz
There's quite a difference, I'd have thought, between cooking in a porch with the door open (but fastened!) and cooking inside the tent itself. No idea which was going on in this case.
Re: Stoves - fire safe?
Posted: 27 Jul 2022, 9:52pm
by foxyrider
I have occasionally used the stove in the closed porch, you had better bet i'm doubly careful! More often i'll use the stove in an open porch (suitably devoid of flappy stuff). Of course in bigger tents its no big issue providing you are sensible, its little tents that are more likely to be on the edge of safety. I think Vantage has tried every possibilty of getting it very wrong!
My basics are:
never use in the inner, only the porch
make sure there is plenty of clear space around and above the stove (we put a hole in a frame tent by having the stove too close to a sloping wall!)
make sure it is well ventilated
make sure the stove/pots cannot tip
keep any naked flame as low as possible (i prefer a stove with a pietzl starter for this reason, one less naked flame to worry about)
always check the fuel is turned off before starting and immediately on finishing
If there is a sensible alternative i will use that rather than the tent
Re: Stoves - fire safe?
Posted: 28 Jul 2022, 11:15am
by pjclinch
foxyrider wrote: ↑27 Jul 2022, 9:52pm
I have occasionally used the stove in the closed porch, you had better bet i'm doubly careful! More often i'll use the stove in an open porch (suitably devoid of flappy stuff). Of course in bigger tents its no big issue providing you are sensible, its little tents that are more likely to be on the edge of safety. I think Vantage has tried every possibilty of getting it very wrong!
My basics are:
never use in the inner, only the porch
make sure there is plenty of clear space around and above the stove (we put a hole in a frame tent by having the stove too close to a sloping wall!)
make sure it is well ventilated
make sure the stove/pots cannot tip
keep any naked flame as low as possible (i prefer a stove with a pietzl starter for this reason, one less naked flame to worry about)
always check the fuel is turned off before starting and immediately on finishing
If there is a sensible alternative i will use that rather than the tent
I'd add to that in thinking about escape routes if things go the Way of the Pear. That's part of the reason why I like generous porches and two entrances.
Re: Stoves - fire safe?
Posted: 28 Jul 2022, 11:37am
by Sweep
my take on the initial point after kind feedback is that nowt to worry about.
on use in tents, I was surprised to see this on the Robens web page info about their Lodge 2.
"The combination of dome style and short transverse ridge pole offers flexible living, cooking and storage space with excellent internal height and width that allows the two occupants to sit side by side. The twin doors allow each camper easy access and options in door opening to shelter from the wind as well as delivering excellent cross ventilation through the mesh panels in the doors"
for as said upthread, tent companies always seem to be somewhat guarded/cautious on this.
Won't change my view and practice - no intention of having a stove anywhere near a tent - for reasons of my personal safety, continued shelter, and not causing blazes of other stuff.
No plans to take my bike up everest in winter.