Moulton TSR 9 Upgrade to Shimano Alfine 11

[intothefold1985]

G'day! I am a new rider to AM. It's an old TSR 9 about 14 years old. A buddy gave it to me. Love the suspension and the smooth ride, but not the stares. My TSR 9 comes with the SRAM 9 group set. I would like to upgrade the SRAM 9 to Shimano Alfine 11. I know that the SST comes with the Shimano option, but wondering if I can swap to the Shimano group set from the current SRAM 9 along with new set of wheels and hubs? Any technical or mechanical pitfalls to watch out for? Thank you for your answers.

[simonineaston]

Hiya. I'm liking my TSRs too but have never ridden them down stares - I always take the lift...
The TSR is pretty adapatable - the last one I had (bought through this very forum, in fact) flipped fairly readily from 3 chainring Campag, to Alfine and back. Another regular contributor to the forum uses a Sturmey Archer 3 speed, fitted with a cassette (and more-than-one chainring too, if I recall correctly).
The TSR9 would need very little adapting before you could fit it with an Alfine 8 or 11 speed. The hub doesn't need a braze on cable stop as it has its own (referred to as the cassette joint)

Shimano Alfine cassette joint

Other than that, you might want to switch the overall gearing otherwise you could end up with a rather high range. There's not a great deal of choice with respect to triggers - Shimano's own dual lever trigger is a fairly safe bet, but fits only straight bars. For drops, you have the choice of Microshift brifter style or Jtek bar end.
Chain needs either to fit well, or else resort to one of Shimano's tensioners. All readily do-able though, as the SST variant proves

[simonineaston]

ps, there's a bewildering variety of colour-coded anti-turn washers - you'll need to choose the ones that suit the TSR9's drop-outs... the ones on the Alfine-equipped SST are yellow (drive-side) and white.

[intothefold1985]

Thank you so much for the reply. I think there's a very slight difference between the SST 11 rear forks and the TSR 9. Will changing the gear face over lock distance for the TSR if it's converted to Alfine 11? Do I need to bend the frame?

[rogerzilla]

Most TSRs have an odd rear spacing of 132.5mm, so either a 130mm or 135mm hub can be squeezed in. I don't like the compromise and would rather have it set to the correct OLD, but it is not easy. The rear triangle is very stiff but the dropouts are not, so a DIY approach will just bend the dropouts.

[intothefold1985]

Yikes. Do you think any other type of gear besides SRAM 9 is worth upgrading without bending the forks to fit the hubs? My grear is broken so I have to swap but rather swap to 11 speed than keep 9 speed. Also, 9 speeds are hard to source now.

[Mick F]

Most TSRs have an odd rear spacing of 132.5mm, so either a 130mm or 135mm hub can be squeezed in. I don't like the compromise and would rather have it set to the correct OLD, but it is not easy. The rear triangle is very stiff but the dropouts are not, so a DIY approach will just bend the dropouts.

TRS30 owner here.

I used a long bolt, washers, and a nut, and squeezed the damned thing down to 130mm.
I removed the rear triangle off the frame to do it.
Thread on here all about it somewhere.

It drove me crackers having to undo the QR and then having to undo the nut to release the wheel.
Now that it's correct at 130mm OLN, it's perfect.

Why they did it like that, leaves me mystified considering it was designed as a regular 10sp Shimano hub.

[intothefold1985]

Thank you Mick F: Is your TSR 30 rear fork spacing 132.5 mm? I think TSR 9 is 130mm. I wonder why there is a 2.5 mm difference.

[rogerzilla]

Mine was sold as a frameset but was also 132.5mm.

[Mick F]

Yep, mine was (the silly) 132.5mm.

If you fitted a 135mm OLN wheel, it would be a struggle.
Fit a 130mm OLN wheel, and you have to squeeze the rear in much further than a QR copes with.

Brucey commented on my thread about it, saying it was a "compromise" OLN and that I was wrong to squeeze mine in.

It works perfectly, and in the past I've spread the rear ends of bikes out from 126mm to 130mm. If you can widen them, you can make them narrower! I see no issues at all .......... if you can stretch 'em, you can squeeze 'em!

[Jdsk]

Brucey on dropout width and bending frames:
viewtopic.php?t=106100

Jonathan

[intothefold1985]

Thank you to everyone who replied on this thread. Completing the parts list for my conversion (thank you Simonineaston for the helpful link: https://bikeshed.johnhoogstrate.nl/bicy ... e-shifters).

Please tell me what I'm leaving out:
1. Rear wheel with 32 or 36 spokes (which choice is better)?
2. Alfine 11 Rear Hub SG-S700 (32 or 36 spokes silver or black)
3. Alfine 11 Shifter SL-S700
4. Alfine Chain Tensioner CT-S500
5. Alfine Crankset 45T
6. Alfine/Nexus small parts kit (with cassette) CJ-8S20 or SM-S700 for vertical dropouts? TSR is vertical or horizontal dropout? Confusing here: the small kits are offered as standard, vertical and horizontal dropouts.
7. Alfine sprocket S500
Anything else?

Have a good weekend and happy riding everyone.

[Sum]

For the Alfine 11 IGH (either the SG-S700 or SG-S7001-11) you will need the CJ-S700 cassette joint:-
https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/ev/SG-S7 ... -3092A.pdf
https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/ev/SG-S7 ... -4207A.pdf

The CJ-8S20 is for the Nexus Inter-8 or Inter-5
https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/com/? ... acid=C-647

According to the service instructions and dealer manuals, the appropiate non-turn washers for vertical dropouts are the 8R/Blue and 8L/Green non-turn washers:-
https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/si/37R0A ... 02-ENG.pdf
https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/sm/IHG-I ... df#page=11
https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/dm/SG000 ... df#page=17
This assumes the gear cable run will be along the chain stays, rather than the seat stays, which I think is appropiate to the Moulton TSR 9.

[intothefold1985]

Thank you very much Sum.

[simonineaston]

I'm pretty much with sum there - although I've advise inspection of the TSR drop-outs. For example see the picture of the drive side drop-out of the TSR frame I used to run the Alfine. Once you're clear which style of drop-out you have, you can use the document sum linked to to make sure you select the correct anti-turn washers.

picture of TSR drop-out