Legal lights?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
LancsGirl
Posts: 255
Joined: 5 Jun 2021, 9:57pm

Re: Legal lights?

Post by LancsGirl »

Sum wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 10:31pm
LancsGirl wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 10:10pm Actually, I've returned it.
Wow! That was unexpected.

I was asking because I've been using a StVZO dynamo light for sometime now, and there's been occasions when I wished I had something more along the lines of a main beam. Anyhoo let us know how your new StVZO light works out. The link you posted didn't work, but I assume this was the link?
https://www.cyclestore.co.uk/lezyne_pow ... t-ID_82725
Nearly. I've ordered the non + version of the one you linked to. This:
As far as I can make out, it's exactly the same light output and configuration, just half the battery life. It's also half the price. I got it for £44.

And as I said up thread, if it was long battery life you are after, two of those would cost the same as one of the "+" versions. And would actually be more useful. As you could have one on charge (from a battery pack) while the other one was being used. Then swap round until the battery pack was flat. Whereas with the + version you would have to stop to recharge, as it won't shine when charging (I don't think). Of course you would have to be doing some serious overnight cycling to need that, but the option with two of them is still there.

Yes, the 1300 XXL thing is certainly powerful. But as others have pointed out, that power is to the detriment of other road users. It's basically a searchlight. For a night-time mountain biker, off road, gravel biker or whatever, it would be good. But I'm none of those things.
User avatar
freiston
Posts: 1504
Joined: 6 Oct 2013, 10:20am
Location: Coventry

Re: Legal lights?

Post by freiston »

I have a 1000 lumen torch (Fenix PD35 Tac) that I have mounted on my handlebar with a rubber block with velcro straps for off-road use but even when off-road, I tend not to mount it on the bike now. It's a good general purpose hand/pocket torch though with several power levels and is as suitable as any similarly powered bike light for off-road cycling.
Whenever I do ride at night, I always put a little headtorch in my pocket or bag, in case of mechanicals, lost objects or toilet calls.
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
LancsGirl
Posts: 255
Joined: 5 Jun 2021, 9:57pm

Re: Legal lights?

Post by LancsGirl »

freiston wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 11:29pm A big thumbs up from me :D
I hope that you are as chuffed with it as I am with my StVZO dynamo light (only 80 lux :wink: )
Happy night time cycling - it can get addictive (and is a nice cool alternative when the days are 30°C +)

Wishing you the best for your upcoming tour too.
Thanks. And thanks for the advice.
LancsGirl
Posts: 255
Joined: 5 Jun 2021, 9:57pm

Re: Legal lights?

Post by LancsGirl »

Lezyne StVZO light arrived fine. Thanks for tips.

I don't particularly like the rubber band attachment thingy. I'm sure it's a top of the range rubber band, but I'd prefer something more secure, and adjustable more precisely.

I note that Lezyne do actually do a GoPro style mount:

https://ride.lezyne.com/products/1-led-gpad-v104

There's umpteen GoPro handlebar/stem cap mounts available. In fact I might have one that came with my iPhone mounting kit. Once I've decided which one to get I should be able to set up the lamp so that it illuminates enough for me, but doesn't dazzle other road users. Toddlers excepted.

I found this:

https://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests ... mp-richten

Which wasn't really helping too much.

Does anybody have an idiots guide? You know that thing where MOT stations shine your headlamps into something to check alignment, something like that for StVZO bike lights.

What I'm hoping for is:

1. Find a level car park.

2. With a wall

3. Set your bike up X metres away.

4. Turn on your lights.

5. The top of the light on the wall should be X mm from the ground.

Sort of thing.
User avatar
freiston
Posts: 1504
Joined: 6 Oct 2013, 10:20am
Location: Coventry

Re: Legal lights?

Post by freiston »

I have seen a guide somewhere but I can't find it. My B + M light came with instructions "Make sure to securely fix the headlamp to the bicycle using the stainless steel bracket or another bracket and adjust it in a way to prevent any blinding effect on the oncoming traffic. Align the beam on the road at approximately 10 m distance".

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much but try it out - angle it to provide functional illumination of the road, then, with the light on, (and this is much easier with a battery/rechargeable light than with a dynamo :wink: ), lean/stand the bike vertical, walk away from it until you're out of the main beam as seen on the road, turn around and see how far away you are and if you're dazzled. Squat until your head is typical car driver height and see how things look from there. There is (for good reason) some illumination above the cut-off and the light should appear bright - more so as you get closer to the cut-off - but when you get your eyes below the cut-off it will be proper dazzling. Try riding with it and tweak as you feel fit. Unless you angle the light so that the cut-off is high or hits the road far away, there's not going to be much chance for eyes to get below the cut-off. Of course, the higher your light is from the ground, the more likely it becomes. If I recall correctly, most car occupants eyes are a little bit lower than my handlebars - so if a light is mounted on the handlebar and the cut-off is angled below the horizontal to hit the road at even 20m away, a car would have to be quite close for its occupants to be dazzled.
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
tatanab
Posts: 5033
Joined: 8 Feb 2007, 12:37pm

Re: Legal lights?

Post by tatanab »

LancsGirl wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 5:31pm Does anybody have an idiots guide? You know that thing where MOT stations shine your headlamps into something to check alignment, something like that for StVZO bike lights.
From memory, set up is that at a distance of 10 metres the centre of the beam has fallen to half the height the lamp is fitted. I set mine up that way as a starting point and tweak slightly on the road.

Again from memory, the difficulty that swhs website has in determining just where the centre of the beam lies. Perhaps this fits with my little tweaks after initial alignment. I have been using StVZO lights in both dynamo and battery forms for probably 15 years, mostly riding in pitch dark lanes and with no complaints from approaching motorists or cyclists.
wirral_cyclist
Posts: 1024
Joined: 17 May 2010, 9:25pm
Location: Wirral Merseyside

Re: Legal lights?

Post by wirral_cyclist »

Park in front of wall, measure cut off line on lamp (or bottom of reflector) and make sure line on wall is lower, this assumes lamp is at sensible height on bike.
De Sisti
Posts: 1507
Joined: 17 Jun 2007, 6:03pm

Re: Legal lights?

Post by De Sisti »

In the public interest all bike lights are legal. There has never been a prosecution of a rider with
lights not conforming to whatever the current standards are. :twisted:
wirral_cyclist
Posts: 1024
Joined: 17 May 2010, 9:25pm
Location: Wirral Merseyside

Re: Legal lights?

Post by wirral_cyclist »

De Sisti wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 8:02pm In the public interest all bike lights are legal. There has never been a prosecution of a rider with
lights not conforming to whatever the current standards are. :twisted:
You can bet it's only a matter of time before this comes up in an insurance claim, hell my wife was SIDE swiped in daylight and the lights on her bike got a thorough checking!
LancsGirl
Posts: 255
Joined: 5 Jun 2021, 9:57pm

Re: Legal lights?

Post by LancsGirl »

De Sisti wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 8:02pm In the public interest all bike lights are legal. There has never been a prosecution of a rider with
lights not conforming to whatever the current standards are. :twisted:
I don't know what your first sentence means. The whole point of this thread was to try to establish what "legal lights" means, as per thread title. And for me to find some that conformed to the law, which I think I have done. Your phrase "In the public interest" doesn't make any sense.

Though the law and its implementation may be ambiguous doesn't mean that "all bike lights are legal". Neither does the assertion (whether true or not) that nobody has ever been prosecuted for non-conformance imply that all lights are "legal".

If you are a lawyer perhaps you could explain your post in a way that a simple non-lawyer might understand. If you think it might add anything useful to the thread.
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Legal lights?

Post by mjr »

De Sisti wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 8:02pm In the public interest all bike lights are legal. There has never been a prosecution of a rider with
lights not conforming to whatever the current standards are. :twisted:
The first sentence is not true. Flashing bike lights of certain colours are on sale but definitely illegal to use on road.

Probably still not prosecuted because it can be dealt with by fixed penalty notice.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
LancsGirl
Posts: 255
Joined: 5 Jun 2021, 9:57pm

Re: Legal lights?

Post by LancsGirl »

Yes, thanks for suggestions. That the law as it applies in Germany is unclear, as this author says:

https://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests ... mp-richten

doesn't stop me adopting a common sense approach. Which is really based upon 3 things:

1. I want to be able to see where I'm going

2. I want other road users to see me

3. I don't want other road users to be dazzled

So there are a few things I can do, fairly easily. There's a church car park near me. It's flat, and I have the tools to check whether it is also level. I have a bike stand thingy to hold the bike while I measure, and also to see what the bike lights look like from the driver's seat of my car, which is an "ordinary" car, with a driving position which is neither very high or very low. Reading around there are a few things to aim for.

1. As it's an StVZO with a definite upper cut off, that cut off should at least be lower on the wall than the hieght at which it leaves the lamp. The lamp should be pointing down, somewhat.

2. The "middle" (define middle?) of the beam should be 10 metres ahead.

3. and /or the limit of any light from the lamp should be on the road ~50 metres ahead.

I don't know what length the various standard road markings are, but I can find out. And use a stretch of road on a regular route near me as a "quick check".

Thanks.
User avatar
squeaker
Posts: 4112
Joined: 12 Jan 2007, 11:43pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Legal lights?

Post by squeaker »

LancsGirl wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 5:31pm I don't particularly like the rubber band attachment thingy. I'm sure it's a top of the range rubber band, but I'd prefer something more secure, and adjustable more precisely.
I'm with you there! Someone making those dreadful rubber straps must have done an ace selling job on several otherwise sensible light manufacturers :(
"42"
User avatar
freiston
Posts: 1504
Joined: 6 Oct 2013, 10:20am
Location: Coventry

Re: Legal lights?

Post by freiston »

squeaker wrote: 18 Aug 2022, 10:21am
LancsGirl wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 5:31pm I don't particularly like the rubber band attachment thingy. I'm sure it's a top of the range rubber band, but I'd prefer something more secure, and adjustable more precisely.
I'm with you there! Someone making those dreadful rubber straps must have done an ace selling job on several otherwise sensible light manufacturers :(
+1 from me too. A light needs to be securely held and set to the required angle and the only time it will change angle is when the rider wants to change it. As a method of temporarily removing a light, e.g. when going into a shop, they're not as good as a well-executed alternative. Using such a mount to adjust the light on the hoof as a "dipping" feature is moot for the kind of light we're talking about (and imho, a problematic and inadequate solution with other lights).

I do like my Garmin rubber band mount though - horses for courses!
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Legal lights?

Post by mjr »

LancsGirl wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 12:23pm It's flat. Very flat. Not quite Norfolk, but still pretty flat.
Repeating Noel Coward's stupid incorrect comment (Huntingdonshire is flatter in terms of highest to lowest, while Cambs and Lincs are both flatter by % of flattish land, thanks to Lincs also having some at its north end) really demotivates me from sharing any further useful info.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Post Reply