Legal lights?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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freiston
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Re: Legal lights?

Post by freiston »

Dazzling lights are more than anti-social - they are illegal (I think it's The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989, Part II, 22 (1)):
Cycling UK wrote:According to the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations, it is an offence for any light on any vehicle (that includes bicycles) to “cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road”
Link to quoted article
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
LancsGirl
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Re: Legal lights?

Post by LancsGirl »

freiston wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 3:09pm Dazzling lights are more than anti-social - they are illegal (I think it's The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989, Part II, 22 (1)):
Cycling UK wrote:According to the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations, it is an offence for any light on any vehicle (that includes bicycles) to “cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road”
Link to quoted article
Thanks. I'll wait for m'learned friends to define "undue dazzle or discomfort" then.

I'm not going to worry about being prosecuted. Given the huge number of traffic laws that are broken or ignored every day, the chances of a police officer doing anything about this, with me, are vanishingly small. Zero, I'd say. In fact, has any cyclist ever been prosecuted for having dazzling lights?

So on the basis that the main reason for me to get an StVZO light are to be a good road user, this looks like it might do the job. Especially as it has an StVZO mode, but also a long beam mode (which I assume isn't StVZO compliant). At least I think that's what it does:

https://www.cyclestore.co.uk/lezyne_pow ... gLDH_D_BwE
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freiston
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Re: Legal lights?

Post by freiston »

I think the long beam is still within StVZO standard - otherwise the light couldn't be sold as StVZO (that's my understanding).
On first impression, that light looks rather good and if I was in the market for one, I reckon I would snap it up.

I found a Youtube video (in German) with the light (amongst others) featured. I don't speak German and didn't put subtitles on so I haven't a scooby what they were saying.
https://youtu.be/6sj5MOSt-vg
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
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freiston
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Re: Legal lights?

Post by freiston »

The article that I linked to above (from Cycling UK by Chris Juden) is a few years old but still very relevant imho and as well as giving good information about dazzling and light intensity, raises some pertinent points. The chart towards the end of the article showing the maximum brightness in the beam and the brightness 3.5° above that bright spot is interesting. The only light that comes out with a good difference is the only StVZO light in the test group.
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
PH
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Re: Legal lights?

Post by PH »

LancsGirl wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 3:20pm
freiston wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 3:09pm Dazzling lights are more than anti-social - they are illegal (I think it's The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989, Part II, 22 (1)):
Cycling UK wrote:According to the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations, it is an offence for any light on any vehicle (that includes bicycles) to “cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road”
Link to quoted article
Thanks. I'll wait for m'learned friends to define "undue dazzle or discomfort" then.
If you return to the article you linked to in your opening post, it says:
At least one lamp is required, showing a white light, positioned centrally or offside (the right-hand side of the bike), up to 1500mm from the ground, aligned towards and visible from the front. If capable of emitting a steady light, it must be marked as conforming to BS6102/3 or an equivalent EC standard.
(My bold) The easiest way to achieve that is by getting something with the German standard. that's what most of Europe does, it's the highest standard, so light manufacturers who want a conforming light don't bother with anything else or they'd be making multiple versions of the same lights.
I'd say the chances of getting prosecuted are so remote that they're not worth considering. I'd also guess that with the current ever increasing desire for riders to outshine each other, at some point such a light will be blamed for a RTA.
I have an anti social blaster light, though it's half the output of yours it still melts the Tarmac, turns night into day, scares the sh1t out of nesting birds in the tree tops. It is great fun, but I don't need it, I don't cycle at a speed where I need to see as far ahead as I do on a motorbike, so it only gets used where there's no one to be anti social too, or occasionally to flash a motorist to get them to dip. There are a good choice of lights that meet the German standard, which also put out more than enough light for just about any type of on road cycling.

On the other point about lights that operate while being charged - That isn't the norm, my Niterider doesn't, but I'm not bothered as it's never my primary light. I haven't researched it, though i'd have thought it would be mentioned in reviews which make a big deal about run times. The only exception I've come across is the Supernova Airstream, I know someone runs theirs as a battery light for commuting and dynamo powered for Audax (That might need some gizmo between hub and light) and it'll also run off a powerbank.
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mjr
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Re: Legal lights?

Post by mjr »

Some of the crivit (Lidl special offer) front lights will shine while USB powered. I'm not 100% sure it is charging as well as shining, though.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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freiston
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Re: Legal lights?

Post by freiston »

I just found another review of the StVZO Lezyne light - this time by an English speaking Australian who uses it on an electric scooter.

I'ts a good review imho and it gives a detailed view that I would find very useful if looking to buy one. I would keep in mind that he's using it mounted 130cm from the ground - considerably higher than I would expect it to be mounted on a bike (my bars are approximately 100cm from the ground). I reckon that his experience would have been better if the light was mounted lower.

https://youtu.be/MimsDF3Nryk
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: Legal lights?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

I would have thought that with the increased interest in gravel/adventure/all-road/etc riding and with the increased popularity of battery packs in various walks of life, there must be increasing demand for lights which work while being charged. But I'm afraid I don't know any details, sorry. Certainly something to look out for.
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Re: Legal lights?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

One of the problems with StVZO lights on any type of vehicle and similar lights which rely on a horizontal cut-off, is toddlers. They cop an full-intensity beam and their eyes are normally more sensitive to glare than an adult's or older child's. Just because they're not in charge of vehicles doesn't mean it's okay to dazzle them.
De Sisti
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Re: Legal lights?

Post by De Sisti »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 4:56pm One of the problems with StVZO lights on any type of vehicle and similar lights which rely on a horizontal cut-off, is toddlers. They cop an full-intensity beam and their eyes are normally more sensitive to glare than an adult's or older child's. Just because they're not in charge of vehicles doesn't mean it's okay to dazzle them.
So toddlers are going to be routinely out at dark on the roads to experience this? Come off it, you're 'aving us on, surely? :shock:
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Legal lights?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Seeing as darkness falls around 4pm in winter in much of UK, not to mention other parts of the world (and of course much earlier further north), yes, they routinely experience it. Mine used to complain about it when walking along the pavement with me.
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Re: Legal lights?

Post by PH »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 6:00pm Seeing as darkness falls around 4pm in winter in much of UK, not to mention other parts of the world (and of course much earlier further north), yes, they routinely experience it. Mine used to complain about it when walking along the pavement with me.
It is a problem, I don't know the answer, though I'm not sure it's any more an issue with StVZO lights than any other, they don't tend to put more light below the horizon, just more of their light, there is no StVZO equivalent to a 1,300 lumen light.
LancsGirl
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Re: Legal lights?

Post by LancsGirl »

freiston wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 4:22pm I just found another review of the StVZO Lezyne light - this time by an English speaking Australian who uses it on an electric scooter.

I'ts a good review imho and it gives a detailed view that I would find very useful if looking to buy one. I would keep in mind that he's using it mounted 130cm from the ground - considerably higher than I would expect it to be mounted on a bike (my bars are approximately 100cm from the ground). I reckon that his experience would have been better if the light was mounted lower.

https://youtu.be/MimsDF3Nryk
Great, thanks for tracking that down.

There seem to be two models of that light. A Pro and a Pro+. As far as I can make out the only difference is run times. The + is more or less double. It's also double the price (and a bit hard to track down). Given that it doesn't seem possible to charge it at the same time as the light is shining, then buying two of the lower powered one is actually better than one of the higher powered one. On a very long night-time ride you would have one on charge (from a battery pack) and one shining. Then swap them round. As long as the charge time is less than the depletion time, and with a big enough battery pack, one could cycle for ages like that.

Though I'll just buy one for now. I'm on holiday in the UK, so I'll get it sent there, and return the other one.
Last edited by LancsGirl on 10 Aug 2022, 6:57pm, edited 1 time in total.
LancsGirl
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Re: Legal lights?

Post by LancsGirl »

mjr wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 4:20pm Some of the crivit (Lidl special offer) front lights will shine while USB powered. I'm not 100% sure it is charging as well as shining, though.
So I'm clear. There are lights which can be both powered by USB, and charged by USB?
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Re: Legal lights?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

PH wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 6:29pm
Bmblbzzz wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 6:00pm Seeing as darkness falls around 4pm in winter in much of UK, not to mention other parts of the world (and of course much earlier further north), yes, they routinely experience it. Mine used to complain about it when walking along the pavement with me.
It is a problem, I don't know the answer, though I'm not sure it's any more an issue with StVZO lights than any other, they don't tend to put more light below the horizon, just more of their light, there is no StVZO equivalent to a 1,300 lumen light.
Yes, it's not particular to StVZO, I meant that it's a problem which StVZO and similar designs do not address.
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