Women's football

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francovendee
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Re: Women's football

Post by francovendee »

simonineaston wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 9:16am As an aside, the media commentary has now switched from congratulations and remarking on how things have changed for the women's team to speculating on the subject of what might happen next. At the core of this discussion is the elephant in the room - money. At which point I shudder when I recall the men's game and how it's changed in my lifetime - and seldom for the better.
I wish the women's team all the very best in the world, and hope too that they're able to resist the worst aspects of modern professional sport.
Sorry to say I don't think they will. All sports end up driven by the money.
Only in amateur sport can you see people competing just for the love of the game.
Bonefishblues
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Re: Women's football

Post by Bonefishblues »

Baroness Whatshername was very aware of what makes women's football special when interviewed this morning, so let's see. At the very least I don't think that womens are as susceptible to the "Big I Am" syndrome as males, so I harbour hopes.
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Sweep
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Re: Women's football

Post by Sweep »

simonineaston wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 9:16am As an aside, the media commentary has now switched from congratulations and remarking on how things have changed for the women's team to speculating on the subject of what might happen next. At the core of this discussion is the elephant in the room - money. At which point I shudder when I recall the men's game and how it's changed in my lifetime - and seldom for the better.
I wish the women's team all the very best in the world, and hope too that they're able to resist the worst aspects of modern professional sport.
+1
I'm not optimistic knowing the way of the world.

As an aside/maybe a sign of the way things are going.
I had some stuff to do yesterday on the bike so trained and biked to central London and Trafalgar Square.
Apart from the "curated" managed pit in the middle of the square, a fair number of happy and interested souls had gathered on the pavement just the other side of the square's walls to celebrate/witness/pay their respects - over the road from South Africa house. A mesh fence had been put there - but big mesh you could see through perfectly easily and you could argue that that had been put there for basic safety reasons in case anyone was tempted to get on top of the wall.
But on top of this had been laid a light euro branded plastic meshy thing I can only liken to some sort of tempting underswear stuff - tiny tiny holes you couldn't really see though and were probably only there to stop it catching the wind. In effect blocking the view.
Before the team arrived we were treated to Khan (at least no Boris) sticking his oar in/milking the happy occasion for his own benefit - not sure why - a national team, not a London one.
Then folks tried quite naturally to unfasten the light material from the fence - it was only held by the tiniest of threads at the top.
Would you believe that security came twice to put it back and block our view.
They could give no reason why they were doing this other than that "it's to stop people seeing".
They were doing it on the instructions of the GLA of which Khan is mayor.
Not sure if called in by the security guards but a policecar pulled up for a while.

A bloke next to me with his wife seemed like a traditional east London sort. Like me his reaction to "security" was a mixture of disbelief/outrage/laughter. Quite possible that he was at one time a close neighbour of Bobby Moore's family in those very different times.

I wasn't altogether surprised that the team turned up at 12:40 pretty much bang on the dot, despite being maybe somewhat the worse for wear, as the beeb had announced this time in advance.
And so the media sponsor packaged show went on.
I remember when Trafalgar Square was a public space used for any number of events and demos.
No longer it seems - it's often fenced off.
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Sweep
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Re: Women's football

Post by Sweep »

Bonefishblues wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 9:56am At the very least I don't think that womens are as susceptible to the "Big I Am" syndrome as males.
Football aside, not sure what sheltered world you have been fortunate enough to live in.
"Prima donna" is not a "sexist" term - have known one or two. And am pretty sure many many women have known far more of them. And worse. Bullying also comes to mind.
Might be an idea to have a few words with some women about their secondary school years.
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Women's football

Post by Bonefishblues »

Sweep wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 10:07am
Bonefishblues wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 9:56am At the very least I don't think that womens are as susceptible to the "Big I Am" syndrome as males.
Football aside, not sure what sheltered world you have been fortunate enough to live in.
"Prima donna" is not a "sexist" term - have known one or two. And am pretty sure many many women have known far more of them. And worse. Bullying also comes to mind.
Might be an idea to have a few words with some women about their secondary school years.
I'm puzzled why women's sport is so very different to men's in tone and behaviour then - can you expand your observations to explain why that might be the case.
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Sweep
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Re: Women's football

Post by Sweep »

Bonefishblues wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 10:34am
Sweep wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 10:07am
Bonefishblues wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 9:56am At the very least I don't think that womens are as susceptible to the "Big I Am" syndrome as males.
Football aside, not sure what sheltered world you have been fortunate enough to live in.
"Prima donna" is not a "sexist" term - have known one or two. And am pretty sure many many women have known far more of them. And worse. Bullying also comes to mind.
Might be an idea to have a few words with some women about their secondary school years.
I'm puzzled why women's sport is so very different to men's in tone and behaviour then - can you expand your observations to explain why that might be the case.
I was addressing your general gender point.

On the football, I tend to share simonineaston's worries - that if money/mass sponsorship/media deals etc etc etc hit women's football it will go the same way as the men's sport, which I consider pretty poisonous and pointless. You don't after all have to back very far (as simon says, within many of our lifetimes) to find a game which was simpler and more joyful.
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Women's football

Post by Bonefishblues »

Sweep wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 10:40am
Bonefishblues wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 10:34am
Sweep wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 10:07am
Football aside, not sure what sheltered world you have been fortunate enough to live in.
"Prima donna" is not a "sexist" term - have known one or two. And am pretty sure many many women have known far more of them. And worse. Bullying also comes to mind.
Might be an idea to have a few words with some women about their secondary school years.
I'm puzzled why women's sport is so very different to men's in tone and behaviour then - can you expand your observations to explain why that might be the case.
I was addressing your general gender point.

On the football, I tend to share simonineaston's worries - that if money/mass sponsorship/media deals etc etc etc hit women's football it will go the same way as the men's sport, which I consider pretty poisonous and pointless. You don't after all have to back very far (as simon says, within many of our lifetimes) to find a game which was simpler and more joyful.
That's a bleak view.

Why is women's sport demonstrably different, including ones where there's already significant reward given you don't accept my point about gender because secondary school?
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Sweep
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Re: Women's football

Post by Sweep »

Bonefishblues wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 10:50am
Sweep wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 10:40am
Bonefishblues wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 10:34am
I'm puzzled why women's sport is so very different to men's in tone and behaviour then - can you expand your observations to explain why that might be the case.
I was addressing your general gender point.

On the football, I tend to share simonineaston's worries - that if money/mass sponsorship/media deals etc etc etc hit women's football it will go the same way as the men's sport, which I consider pretty poisonous and pointless. You don't after all have to back very far (as simon says, within many of our lifetimes) to find a game which was simpler and more joyful.
That's a bleak view.

Why is women's sport demonstrably different, including ones where there's already significant reward given you don't accept my point about gender because secondary school?
I'd stop trying to broaden the subject of the thread I think.
And I wasn't just talking about secondary school - just a good example to address your sweeping sweeping generalisation. Later life examples available.

Yep, on football I fear that IF the money comes (and it will only come because of commercial reasons - there is nothing sexist in the current lower rewards for some female sports - it's just the market/bums on seats/viewers etc etc) the game will go the same way as the men's.

My experience in Trafalgar Square has already tarnished the joy somewhat :(

(and of course no hint of that in the packaged TV coverage - don't believe everything you see on the telly - often best to get out on your bike and see - have done before with beeb reporting of stuff near me in london)
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Women's football

Post by Bonefishblues »

Sweep wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 11:00am
Bonefishblues wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 10:50am
Sweep wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 10:40am

I was addressing your general gender point.

On the football, I tend to share simonineaston's worries - that if money/mass sponsorship/media deals etc etc etc hit women's football it will go the same way as the men's sport, which I consider pretty poisonous and pointless. You don't after all have to back very far (as simon says, within many of our lifetimes) to find a game which was simpler and more joyful.
That's a bleak view.

Why is women's sport demonstrably different, including ones where there's already significant reward given you don't accept my point about gender because secondary school?
I'd stop trying to broaden the subject of the thread I think.
And I wasn't just talking about secondary school - just a good example to address your sweeping sweeping generalisation. Later life examples available.

Yep, on football I fear that IF the money comes (and it will only come because of commercial reasons - there is nothing sexist in the current lower rewards for some female sports - it's just the market/bums on seats/viewers etc etc) the game will go the same way as the men's.

My experience in Trafalgar Square has already tarnished the joy somewhat :(
I don't think that you have addressed the point I made. Top level women's sport is demonstrably different to men's. You accuse me of sweeping generalisation and advise me not to draw parallels which I think illustrate significant difference which means I am hopeful.

You are not, yet you are not explaining why.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Women's football

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi
al_yrpal wrote: 1 Aug 2022, 5:33pm Lousy ref who ignored serial German fouls in the first 15 minutes and continued in the same vein. The Germans were dirty players and our girls responded by giving back as good as they got.
Great fighting spirit from our ladies won the match!

Al
That's football you probably wouldn't get away with that in any other sport!

Pulling your opponents shirt to prevent them from getting the ball?
either the game is wrong/the mentality of the people wishing to play is bad?

Unfortunately all the emphasis on inclusion of minorities including female participation needs to be backed up by the want by a person to participate in the first place.
Not simply Balancing up/over representation, which are being seen in other areas.
I'd like to see what people from these groups actually want to do, as opposed to what the media and organisations who have been blamed for exclusivity Are doing simply to look PC.
My male friend did cooking at school, in my tech drawing class a female was excluded because the teacher decided that it was not a good idea or probably not ideal for them to be in the class even though they had selected this subject as an option that they wanted to take a qualification in, the father was an engineer.
The teacher of a tech drawing class after the first lesson made moves to exclude the girl from the class, she was probably either persuaded or just simply struck off the list and found a more suitable subject?
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
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Sweep
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Re: Women's football

Post by Sweep »

Bonefishblues wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 11:08am
Sweep wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 11:00am
Bonefishblues wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 10:50am
That's a bleak view.

Why is women's sport demonstrably different, including ones where there's already significant reward given you don't accept my point about gender because secondary school?
I'd stop trying to broaden the subject of the thread I think.
And I wasn't just talking about secondary school - just a good example to address your sweeping sweeping generalisation. Later life examples available.

Yep, on football I fear that IF the money comes (and it will only come because of commercial reasons - there is nothing sexist in the current lower rewards for some female sports - it's just the market/bums on seats/viewers etc etc) the game will go the same way as the men's.

My experience in Trafalgar Square has already tarnished the joy somewhat :(
I don't think that you have addressed the point I made. Top level women's sport is demonstrably different to men's. You accuse me of sweeping generalisation and advise me not to draw parallels which I think illustrate significant difference which means I am hopeful.

You are not, yet you are not explaining why.
suggest you start another thread on your assertion that:
>>At the very least I don't think that womens are as susceptible to the "Big I Am" syndrome as males.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Women's football

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
reohn2 wrote: 1 Aug 2022, 8:48pm
Ray wrote: 1 Aug 2022, 7:55pm I'm not especially interested in football, but I was amused to hear that one of the T-shirt companies (Red Molotov?) have brought out a design printed with the words "FOOTBALL - Invented by men, Perfected by women".
Excellent!
And so very right! :D
I think the women play a better game of football.
But unfortunately bad habits are creeping in or maybe they were always there?
Men's football is so ugly and boring, so that's why I will never watch it.
The women's game was as you expected not to much fouling, could be better.
"Invented by men perfected by women" is is bad as “Kelly is England’s heroine, bra none.”
there is no such thing as better between sex's just different.
So you simply can't promote one over the other.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
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Sweep
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Re: Women's football

Post by Sweep »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 11:29am Hi,
reohn2 wrote: 1 Aug 2022, 8:48pm
Ray wrote: 1 Aug 2022, 7:55pm I'm not especially interested in football, but I was amused to hear that one of the T-shirt companies (Red Molotov?) have brought out a design printed with the words "FOOTBALL - Invented by men, Perfected by women".
Excellent!
And so very right! :D
I think the women play a better game of football.
But unfortunately bad habits are creeping in or maybe they were always there?
Men's football is so ugly and boring, so that's why I will never watch it.
The women's game was as you expected not to much fouling, could be better.
"Invented by men perfected by women" is is bad as “Kelly is England’s heroine, bra none.”
there is no such thing as better between sex's just different.
So you simply can't promote one over the other.
Agree totally - good that from what I saw none of the england players in their many many interviews and sheer exhuberant joy were peddling a "stick it to men" line. Have little doubt that some on social media of both genders will be doing so though.

don't see why she should have got a yellow card for the top coming off though - what's that rule all about?
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Women's football

Post by Bonefishblues »

Sweep wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 11:26am
Bonefishblues wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 11:08am
Sweep wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 11:00am
I'd stop trying to broaden the subject of the thread I think.
And I wasn't just talking about secondary school - just a good example to address your sweeping sweeping generalisation. Later life examples available.

Yep, on football I fear that IF the money comes (and it will only come because of commercial reasons - there is nothing sexist in the current lower rewards for some female sports - it's just the market/bums on seats/viewers etc etc) the game will go the same way as the men's.

My experience in Trafalgar Square has already tarnished the joy somewhat :(
I don't think that you have addressed the point I made. Top level women's sport is demonstrably different to men's. You accuse me of sweeping generalisation and advise me not to draw parallels which I think illustrate significant difference which means I am hopeful.

You are not, yet you are not explaining why.
suggest you start another thread on your assertion that:
>>At the very least I don't think that womens are as susceptible to the "Big I Am" syndrome as males.
Your continuing advice is beginning to look like avoidance. It's entirely relevant to the point. I've spent a fair chunk of a very modest career having had the privilege of closely examining the behaviour of people in teams and it is the case that there are differences between the sexes. That gives me cause for optimism that the women's game will not go the same way as the men's. Your proposition seems to be 'because money'
Bonefishblues
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Re: Women's football

Post by Bonefishblues »

Sweep wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 11:35am
NATURAL ANKLING wrote: 2 Aug 2022, 11:29am Hi,
reohn2 wrote: 1 Aug 2022, 8:48pm
Excellent!
And so very right! :D
I think the women play a better game of football.
But unfortunately bad habits are creeping in or maybe they were always there?
Men's football is so ugly and boring, so that's why I will never watch it.
The women's game was as you expected not to much fouling, could be better.
"Invented by men perfected by women" is is bad as “Kelly is England’s heroine, bra none.”
there is no such thing as better between sex's just different.
So you simply can't promote one over the other.
Agree totally - good that from what I saw none of the england players in their many many interviews and sheer exhuberant joy were peddling a "stick it to men" line. Have little doubt that some on social media of both genders will be doing so though.

don't see why she should have got a yellow card for the top coming off though - what's that rule all about?
It's a bookable offence, irrespective of gender
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