Fuel prices

[Stevek76]

Was £1.80 ish when I filled up a couple of weeks ago here.

You also need to account and value the massive benefits the motor car has brought to society, most of us rely on it most days and our lives would have been much poorer without it.

The comparison is against a sort of system optimum so you don't really need to account for such historical benefits. This isn't a bank account!

At no point in my coverage of the externalised costs have I indicated that 'no car use' is the answer. However it is clear from every metric we can measure that we are considerably beyond any peak benefit to society of the motor car and are busy plummeting down the other side. Obviously this varies by area. The IFS and others have done studies on this previously and concluded that some driving is actually slight net contributors to the public purse (generally rural and quiet times of day) whilst as mentioned, driving in a city at peak times is in the £s/km range of subsidy, hence road user charging is probably the best solution here.

Without that though, a direct subsidy/cut of petrol/diesel prices is not a great way to spend public money.

yep - has to change.
Rural bus services of course depend on council support.
And councils for years have had funding cut by central government.
I don't blame the county councils.

Even urban transit systems are best when supported by government investment. As Kahn keeps pointing out in response to the ongoing wrangles with DfT over TfL's funding, every other city in the world comparable to London has a transit system receiving much more public subsidy, including New York. We can't even manage what the usually more economically right wing USA is willing to fund. Our public transport is rubbish across the country.

[rjb]

Texaco garage, Taunton MOT centre Greenway Road. Petrol £1.695. Always the cheapest...

Bus service provided by Somerset CC now next to useless.

Al

Thanks Al, wrong side of town for me but I will make a mental note for the next time I'm passing. Cheers Roger

[Mick F]

Our car had her MOT last week.
Last MOT she recorded 51,784miles.
This one, 56,157miles.

That's 4,373miles in a year.

THAT'S how to reduce your fuel prices.

[Mike Sales]

When I walk past drivers sitting in their car with the engine running, or sit in the market place where the waiting taxies are burning fuel, even in this weather, I conclude that some drivers are not finding fuel prices too high. I hope these people do not whinge on about expensive fuel.

[al_yrpal]

Our car had her MOT last week.
Last MOT she recorded 51,784miles.
This one, 56,157miles.

That's 4,373miles in a year.

THAT'S how to reduce your fuel prices.

About the same as mine

Al

[rmurphy195]

£1.69.5 per litre of E10 here in Taunton yesterday, a welcome reduction.

The Govt are coining it with the VAT component which IMO should be frozen at the £1.30 level.

Anyone paying less?

Al

Why should the VAT be capped?

IMO the government has to get dosh from somewhere to pay tyhe horrendous cost of the Covid epidemic - or did you think your vaccinations, laterl flow tests, treatment if you caught it were going to be free? When government income went down due to less VAT and purchase tax being paid, while at the same time its costs went up (including paying people's wages for them instead of getting income tax).

Did anyone moan about how little tax they were paying for fuel for much of 2020 when prices came down to less than £1.00p per litre for a few months? No. So it goes up for a few months and the opposite happens. Oil prices will restabilise unless the oil producers side with Russia (and maybe China?). Its the Gas that's the biggest issue, at least here in Europe. And we're all getting a government handout on that one!

On this forum, TBH, I would have expected loads of people saying "Cost of fuel for cars going up - great news"!

[pete75]

At no point in my coverage of the externalised costs have I indicated that 'no car use' is the answer. However it is clear from every metric we can measure that we are considerably beyond any peak benefit to society of the motor car and are busy plummeting down the other side. Obviously this varies by area. The IFS and others have done studies on this previously and concluded that some driving is actually slight net contributors to the public purse (generally rural and quiet times of day) whilst as mentioned, driving in a city at peak times is in the £s/km range of subsidy, hence road user charging is probably the best solution here.

But it will be mainly drivers who are paying that subsidy through taxation. People who drive pay the bulk of UK tax. It's the group of people who don't drive, mainly the poor and elderly, who are being subsidised by the tax drivers pay. Remember motorists don't just pay fuel duties/tax, they pay a hell of a lot of income and others taxes as well.

Someone I know well pays over £100,000 per annum income tax, never mind VAT, fuel taxes, VED etc. Please tell me how her driving is being subsidised by anyone else. Before I retired I was on a modest salary but was still stopped almost £2000 in income tax and NI each month - I doubt my motoring was being susbsidised by others either.

[axel_knutt]

Please tell me how her driving is being subsidised by anyone else.

In the UK, half the cost of motoring is covered by motoring taxes, the other half is covered by general taxation which is paid by both motorists and non-motorists.

[mjr]

But it will be mainly drivers who are paying that subsidy through taxation. People who drive pay the bulk of UK tax. It's the group of people who don't drive, mainly the poor and elderly, who are being subsidised by the tax drivers pay. Remember motorists don't just pay fuel duties/tax, they pay a hell of a lot of income and others taxes as well.

Wait a minute: aren't you arguing that because I hold a driving licence, occasionally drive a car (maybe two days last month) and pay income tax, I'm effectively counted as in favour of motoring being half-funded from general taxation? I'm really not: put the motoring taxes up and cut everyone's income tax, please!

[peetee]

Our car had her MOT last week.
Last MOT she recorded 51,784miles.
This one, 56,157miles.

That's 4,373miles in a year.

THAT'S how to reduce your fuel prices.

Too true.
The other very simple method is to drive slower.
For example, I had no choice but to drive to Truro and back yesterday; 28 miles where I did 60 on the dual and 50 on the single carriageway sections - slower than the limit, but by no means ‘slow’. It was late afternoon so almost every driver was probably on the way home but every one of them was in a tearing hurry to get past me. I’d also wager they were familiar with the route and were aware that there was going to be a substantial queue on the two mile section through the city. Shame they didn’t think that the dithering idiot in the old Polo (doing over 55 to the gallon and last filled up in June) would only be a few yards behind them by journeys end.

[francovendee]

I asked the original question because I was curious to know fuel prices in other areas of the country?

I use one tankful a month because we walk to town and get the bus back. They just reduced our half hourly bus service to hourly with a 3 hour gap at lunchtime because hardly anyone uses the bus! Its now almost useless to us.

We will use the car soon for a local holiday and dash to Brittany for a week on the nearby ferry.

Our neighbours have 2 youngsters and very economical cars and both travel about 30 miles to work every day. I think they are pretty typical.

Any fuel price info?.....

Al

Your use of a car sounds reasonable. We do much the same but have no bus service. We limit trips to the shop by car and wait until we need some bulky/ heavy items. Depending on which town, we have a 14 or 19 mile round trip on the bikes.It's surprising how much shopping you can fit into 4 panniers. It's then you know that the Vendee isn't as flat as some think.
I suspect you, like myself, have been keen on cars since young; I still love classic cars but have zero interest in moderns. I wonder if I would buy one if I were a youngster.
Your post was about VAT/fuel duty and I wonder if this windfall of tax is helping the government balance the books? Without it would the UK be borrowing more money?

[Pebble]

Just because a few people don't have or use their cars very much should not be a case for no subsidisation, as it is cars are by far the most popular form of transport for most people. The problem with adding every conceivable cost to cars is that it will rule poorer people out of this fantastic form of travel.

I agree the situation is out of control and our obsession with the motor car is verging on the ridiculous, not helped that over the past 50 years we have built our society and infrastructure around the car. So to start pricing people off the road will just disproportional affect poorer people, and that would be wrong.

May be cars should be limited in size, power and maximum speed. (750kg, 50bhp, 45mph) I'm sure if manufacturers were building to this spec then most cars would be well over 100mpg...and the elecric ones requiring substantially less power.


this is from my wifes 1.7 tonnes 170bhp, 150mph Teutonic SUV

[al_yrpal]

Franco apparently youngsters are increasingly buying Classic Cars. The attraction of no VED if they are pre 81and no requirement for an MOT make them attractive although you wont get the fuel economy. I am currently tarting up old Rusty, my camper. With a new moden carb and fuel pump he does about 25mpg at best but we dont go far.
I have massive Altura panniers but the Mrs can no longer ride a bike so supermarket big shops by bike are out. Our village Post Office/ Stores and a great family butcher are about 30 yards from our house so we try to give them as much business as possible to ensure they survive and prosper. Count in Aldi once a week for a big shop and our grocery bills are pretty reasonable.
One tank or less a month... Our worry, like everyone else here is the forthcoming gas bill. We are trying to head them off by making other economies.

Al

[reohn2]

Since the early 60's the UK has mostly gone down a road(sorry)of personal affordable transport mostly in the shape of the motor car and generally turned it's back on integrated public transport(mosrly thanks to Thatcherism).Whether that be right or wrong,it's a fact,so much so that most people today arguably need a car to live and work,such isnthe way society has been shaped.
The situation regarding sky high fuel costs in the past year has been driven by profit NOT any kind of environmental factor nor has it appreciablyreduced car use,that is borne out by the gross increase in profit of the major fuel companies and fuel sales,this along with other costs of living,has led to much further stress for people who need their ICE powered vehicles.
There's no doubt,for obvious environmental reasons that vehicle emissions and private vehicle use needs to be reduced but until a viable alternative is in place,which isn't anytime soon,people will have to use their cars to get around.
To place society at the mercy of the blatant profiteering of multinational companies when they have no alternative is immoral IMHO but then that's the way of unbridled capitalism,to add insult to injury by the UK government also joining in the profiteering by cashing in on the tax take just makes matters worse.
EDIT,beaten to it by Pebble.

[reohn2]

IMO the government has to get dosh from somewhere to pay tyhe horrendous cost of the Covid epidemic - or did you think your vaccinations, laterl flow tests, treatment if you caught it were going to be free?@

Yep,someone's got to pay for the government's gross mismanagement of the Covid19 pandemic,the £28billion wasted on a track and trace system that never worked,the billions of £££s wasted on contracts for PPE and ventilator contracts for Tory donors,friends and government ministers' business interests,that never materialised.