Fuel prices

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al_yrpal
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Fuel prices

Post by al_yrpal »

£1.69.5 per litre of E10 here in Taunton yesterday, a welcome reduction.

The Govt are coining it with the VAT component which IMO should be frozen at the £1.30 level.

Anyone paying less?

Al
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reohn2
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by reohn2 »

I couldn't agree more about the VAT.
Whilst £1.70 is a welcome reduction,it's still a lot higher than 12months ago and considering the massive profits being announced by the likes of Shell,BP,etc,it's clear the UK public are being fleeced by both government and fuel companies alike.
On holiday in Devon ATM and the last fuel stop I paid £1.91 for diesel.
Last edited by reohn2 on 3 Aug 2022, 11:13am, edited 2 times in total.
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PedallingSquares
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by PedallingSquares »

I don't bother looking anymore TBH.I fill my car when needed and lately that's 3 times a month.It costs what it costs which is now well over £100 per fill up.This month will be more expensive due to extra travelling for holidays and three different shooting comps at opposite ends of the country :roll:
reohn2
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by reohn2 »

PedallingSquares wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 11:11am I don't bother looking anymore TBH.I fill my car when needed and lately that's 3 times a month.It costs what it costs which is now well over £100 per fill up.This month will be more expensive due to extra travelling for holidays and three different shooting comps at opposite ends of the country :roll:
It's OK for us that can afford it but for a whole swathe of the lower paid population who need the vehicle to work it's devastating what with all the other price rises.It's also one of the reasons for food prices
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PedallingSquares
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by PedallingSquares »

reohn2 wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 11:24am
PedallingSquares wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 11:11am I don't bother looking anymore TBH.I fill my car when needed and lately that's 3 times a month.It costs what it costs which is now well over £100 per fill up.This month will be more expensive due to extra travelling for holidays and three different shooting comps at opposite ends of the country :roll:
It's OK for us that can afford it but for a whole swathe of the lower paid population who need the vehicle to work it's devastating what with all the other price rises.It's also one of the reasons for food prices
That's life I'm afraid :|
It will only ever get more expensive to live and we can do little or nothing to stop it.
Stevek76
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by Stevek76 »

Don't see any reason to reduce or freeze VAT or duty. Unless exchanged out for proper road user charging, which would better target the externalised costs. However, overall, even with the increased revenues in vat & duty, driving is still net subsidised.

Lower income HHs are better supported via appropriate uplifts in welfare/universal credit payments, along with investment in better transport options.

In terms of real terms costs, driving only just about 'caught up' with the real terms increases over the last decade or so in bus & rail fares when the price peaked a little while back at near £2/l.
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Pebble
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by Pebble »

I think the hgh fuel prices are a good thing, they will encourage, less driving, more economical driving, and more fuel efficient cars + boost the change to electric vehicles.

But other than profiteering I don't understand why the costs are so high.

Record price for Brent Crude (closest oil to petrol & diesel) was £111.63 per barrel in 2012 and fuel touched £1.40 per litre
Brent Crude's high this year was £106.92 per barrel but fuel reach nearly £2.00 per litre

where has the extra 43% cost come from? are the oil companies profits up ?
Biospace
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by Biospace »

Stevek76 wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 12:11pm However, overall, even with the increased revenues in vat & duty, driving is still net subsidised.
Is this if you include the damage done to the environment, not accounted for in the cost of fuel and tyres? Or is there something else I'm missing?
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PedallingSquares
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by PedallingSquares »

Pebble wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 1:08pm I think the hgh fuel prices are a good thing, they will encourage, less driving, more economical driving, and more fuel efficient cars + boost the change to electric vehicles.
I like your optimism.
I have to disagree though.
For the record I don't actually know anyone who wants an electric car,in fact most I know my age are buying 1970s/80s cars and motorbikes to use as weekend toys 8)
I wish I had the money to buy an old RVG500 2-stroke but they're like rocking horse poo in good nick :|
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mjr
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by mjr »

Stevek76 wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 12:11pm Lower income HHs are better supported via appropriate uplifts in welfare/universal credit payments, along with investment in better transport options.
I agree. Cutting VAT and duty on fuel would tend to help the richest most, which is presumably why the voices calling for it are so loud. Nearly half of households in poorer rural wards have no access to a car, so are dependent on the transport options which keep getting cut.

We've just seen a county-based "fusion" travel ticket launched, which gives a slight price cut for some of the longest multi-operator rural journeys. That's great for days out, but we really need season tickets and operating hours and routes better aligned with large local employer (the industrial warehouses, manufacturers and food processing plants) shift patterns, so that some of those on the lowest incomes can stop paying fluctuating fuel prices every working day. Funding that (and extraurban cycle routes!) would be better uses of any money than making fuel cheaper for the rich.

If they really want to cut fuel prices for the lowest incomes, which I think is still a poor idea, they could allow retailers to reduce the VAT if some gov-issued discount card is scanned. Maybe the govt could also use the card to avoid charging itself and local govt VAT, thereby reducing the likelihood of stigma of using it.
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axel_knutt
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by axel_knutt »

Biospace wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 1:59pm
Stevek76 wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 12:11pm However, overall, even with the increased revenues in vat & duty, driving is still net subsidised.
Is this if you include the damage done to the environment, not accounted for in the cost of fuel and tyres? Or is there something else I'm missing?
Especially if you include damage to the environment.

UK motoring costs cover only about half the total cost to society.
Cost Coverage Ratio.png
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Biospace
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by Biospace »

axel_knutt wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 2:32pm
Biospace wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 1:59pm
Stevek76 wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 12:11pm However, overall, even with the increased revenues in vat & duty, driving is still net subsidised.
Is this if you include the damage done to the environment, not accounted for in the cost of fuel and tyres? Or is there something else I'm missing?
Especially if you include damage to the environment.

UK motoring costs cover only about half the total cost to society.
Cost Coverage Ratio.png

Are there any predicitions of how/if this will alter when EV use is widespread?
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Sweep
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by Sweep »

reohn2 wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 11:24am
PedallingSquares wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 11:11am I don't bother looking anymore TBH.I fill my car when needed and lately that's 3 times a month.It costs what it costs which is now well over £100 per fill up.This month will be more expensive due to extra travelling for holidays and three different shooting comps at opposite ends of the country :roll:
It's OK for us that can afford it but for a whole swathe of the lower paid population who need the vehicle to work it's devastating what with all the other price rises.It's also one of the reasons for food prices
There's also a national divide on this. Many areas of the north and elsewhere have had what public transport they had slashed over the years (and what there is is not fares integrated) so depend on their cars even more. Boris's "levelling up" was always so much wind and I doubt either of his possible successors will give it any real meaning. The national divide will surely just broaden?
Londoners can very easily live without a car and get free public transport 5 to 6 years before folks outside.
Sweep
Stevek76
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by Stevek76 »

Biospace wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 1:59pm Is this if you include the damage done to the environment, not accounted for in the cost of fuel and tyres? Or is there something else I'm missing?
Total public revenue, i.e. VAT, VED, duty and a few other bits vs total public cost which includes the more obvious cost of maintenance but also:

Local air pollution
Local noise pollution
CO2 climate change cost
Collision casualties (for instance the average fatal collision is considered to 'cost' something like £3-4m I think at present)
Congestion (due to tragedy of the commons dynamics). e.g. in most uk cities, the average motor traffic speed is often below a relatively normal utility cycling speed for much of the day.

Those are usually more than enough to be in net subsidy realms.

You can go further and start considering issues such as wider health issues due to an inactive population and so on and less direct environmental damage, endless new roads costs and so on.
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Jdsk
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by Jdsk »

Biospace wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 3:08pm
axel_knutt wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 2:32pm
Biospace wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 1:59pm Is this if you include the damage done to the environment, not accounted for in the cost of fuel and tyres? Or is there something else I'm missing?
Especially if you include damage to the environment.

UK motoring costs cover only about half the total cost to society.
Cost Coverage Ratio.png
Are there any predicitions of how/if this will alter when EV use is widespread?
Analyses of the problem rather than predictions:

IFS: "Fuel for thought: the what, why and how of motoring taxation":
https://ifs.org.uk/publications/6175

House of Commons Select Committee: "Road pricing":
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... eport.html

Jonathan
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