Fuel prices

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al_yrpal
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by al_yrpal »

Our gas Aga started off at £3.50 a day, it now costs £7.35 a day. It will no doubt cost more. Then theres the Worcester Bosch gas central heating boiler... :( The Aga has been off since 1st July. If it goes on at all that will be in October

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Pebble
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by Pebble »

Biospace wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 4:43pm
pete75 wrote: 8 Aug 2022, 6:31pm Well a friend of mine uses a Ford Dexter bought new by his grandfather in 1962 for light jobs on the farm. He likes it because no enclosed cab so delightful to use in half decent weather.
Pebble wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 4:06pm modern day farming is incredibly intensive and massive machines, the bigger the better is the order of the day. Modern combines can be producing 70 to 120 ton of grain per hour, you need three tractors and trailers the size of articulated lorries to keep up. There's a lot of people to feed

Modern agriculture is incredibly energy intensive but Is this current approach sustainable? The indications are that it is not.

I can't find the link for this little snippet which has stayed in my mind, that in the 1950s ~3 units of energy in were required for 1 unit of food energy out of the agricultural system. Today it's over 10:1.
do post the link if you remember it, I would be interested to read.

it certainly wouldn't suprise me, and I would suspect it is the colossal use of fertiliser that is mostly reponsible, I think it is something like 80% of the energy used in agric is natural gas to create the fertiliser.

nd there is nothing about our lifestyles that is remotely sustainable.

Anyway, tonights tractor

number plates match, lights work, brakes work, nice wide pass - these boys don't hang about.
pwa
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by pwa »

Since hearing Paul Lewis on R4 stating that heating water by electricity costs us about four times what it does to heat it by burning gas, we have dug out a hob kettle and are boiling water on the gas hob for coffee and tea. And when I want a pan of water to cook pasta I am now putting the cold water directly into the pan to be heated on the gas hob rather than boiling water in the electric kettle and then pouring that in the pan. At least these concerns over energy costs are making us look afresh at our energy use habits.
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al_yrpal
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by al_yrpal »

Trouble with gas cookers is its like watching paint dry, that's why people preheat water with an electric kettle.
This house came with a Quooker boiling water tap. It delivers precisely just enough for cuppas and cooking veg in a saucepan and no more so I have the feeling its quite economical.
After one has used an induction hob you wouldnt want anything else.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Pebble
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by Pebble »

pwa wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 4:41am Since hearing Paul Lewis on R4 stating that heating water by electricity costs us about four times what it does to heat it by burning gas, we have dug out a hob kettle and are boiling water on the gas hob for coffee and tea. And when I want a pan of water to cook pasta I am now putting the cold water directly into the pan to be heated on the gas hob rather than boiling water in the electric kettle and then pouring that in the pan. At least these concerns over energy costs are making us look afresh at our energy use habits.
I was going to say from an enviro point of view gas is more damaging (CO2) but a quick look at the figures shows it is greener to burn gas than use electric, makes no sense with all the wind solar and nuclear
Gas 185g co2/kwh

Electric 200-300g co2/kwh (depending if the wind is blowing)
with as of now 322g co2/kwh
https://electricityinfo.org/real-time-b ... ty-supply/
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mjr
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by mjr »

pwa wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 4:41am Since hearing Paul Lewis on R4 stating that heating water by electricity costs us about four times what it does to heat it by burning gas, we have dug out a hob kettle and are boiling water on the gas hob for coffee and tea. And when I want a pan of water to cook pasta I am now putting the cold water directly into the pan to be heated on the gas hob rather than boiling water in the electric kettle and then pouring that in the pan. At least these concerns over energy costs are making us look afresh at our energy use habits.
It depends.

For cooking, the high burn temperature of gas helps, but you're still basically heating air to heat the pan to heat water, which loses ~20% compared to electric induction which causes the pan to heat up, so it's closer to three times than four.

For heating, the lower water temperatures required mean that heat pumps are a good option and can be three to four times the efficiency of gas, so the cost is very close to gas, one way or the other.

It should be more efficient to burn gas in big power plants to generate electricity than open flames for cooking, so the bigger question is why that's not being achieved and why things are priced to encourage domestic gas burners.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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francovendee
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by francovendee »

When Liz gets elected you'll all get tax cuts so I'm sure you're all worrying for nothing!
Some hope, it's time for a radical shake up of how the energy market works, in fact should it be a market at all?
For far too long commodities that have been privatised have failed to sort the problems.
My one hope is that the high price of gas and oil will spur the world to build in renewable energy as a norm and not some greenwashing.
In my view all homes should be offered free insulation paid for by the government.
I don't think it should be limited to owner occupiers but extend across the rented sector as well.
I'm aware that some properties because of their age or construction wont be able to get insulated but the majority would.
The savings in energy would be enormous and help people to keep warm.
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PedallingSquares
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by PedallingSquares »

al_yrpal wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 7:59am After one has used an induction hob you wouldnt want anything else.
Al
Used,not impressed prefer gas.
I dislike them so much that I make sure any holiday let we use has a Gas hob.
reohn2
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by reohn2 »

francovendee wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 8:27am When Liz gets elected you'll all get tax cuts so I'm sure you're all worrying for nothing!
Some hope, it's time for a radical shake up of how the energy market works, in fact should it be a market at all?
For far too long commodities that have been privatised have failed to sort the problems.
My one hope is that the high price of gas and oil will spur the world to build in renewable energy as a norm and not some greenwashing.
In my view all homes should be offered free insulation paid for by the government.
I don't think it should be limited to owner occupiers but extend across the rented sector as well.
I'm aware that some properties because of their age or construction wont be able to get insulated but the majority would.
The savings in energy would be enormous and help people to keep warm.
Absolutely spot on!
I agree with ever word,presently it's capitalism gone mad only serving shareholders in energy companies and not people.
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Cugel
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by Cugel »

reohn2 wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 9:25am ....... it's capitalism gone mad only serving shareholders in energy companies and not people.
Capitalism has always been "mad" - if that's defined as acting only in your own short-term financial interests whilst ignoring not only the interests of those exploited (labour "resources", customer "resources" and the resources got from the vulnerable via international murder, theft and environmental despoliation) but also your own longer term financial interest as well as every other kind of interest you might have (short, medium & long term) besides the financial one.

When the weather, global economic meltdown, the argybargy of resource-grabbing kleptocrats going nuclear, a truly gruesome pandemic or one of the many other eflorations of capitalism come a-calling, the fat cats and shareholders will go down with the rest of us. Of course, they think their dosh can somehow buy them the goods and services to give immunity to these perils, which surely should only be suffered by the undeserving poor and others of the hoi-polloi.

Cugel, amateur psychiatrist grade 8C
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francovendee
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by francovendee »

Cugel wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 11:01am
reohn2 wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 9:25am ....... it's capitalism gone mad only serving shareholders in energy companies and not people.
Capitalism has always been "mad" - if that's defined as acting only in your own short-term financial interests whilst ignoring not only the interests of those exploited (labour "resources", customer "resources" and the resources got from the vulnerable via international murder, theft and environmental despoliation) but also your own longer term financial interest as well as every other kind of interest you might have (short, medium & long term) besides the financial one.

When the weather, global economic meltdown, the argybargy of resource-grabbing kleptocrats going nuclear, a truly gruesome pandemic or one of the many other eflorations of capitalism come a-calling, the fat cats and shareholders will go down with the rest of us. Of course, they think their dosh can somehow buy them the goods and services to give immunity to these perils, which surely should only be suffered by the undeserving poor and others of the hoi-polloi.

Cugel, amateur psychiatrist grade 8C
I interpret that as a thumbs down for the Capitalistic system. If so then I agree with you. I'm fed up with people saying public ownership encourages waste of resources. So what? Capitalism is more wasteful and is completely profit driven and ignores anything apart from the dividend for the shareholders.
Private companies have their place but not for water, gas, electricity and health. I'm in two minds about education.
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mjr
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by mjr »

PedallingSquares wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 9:18am
al_yrpal wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 7:59am After one has used an induction hob you wouldnt want anything else.
Used,not impressed prefer gas.
I dislike them so much that I make sure any holiday let we use has a Gas hob.
What the heck did you dislike so much about them that you'd rather trust a gas-burner that has probably been abused 7 times since its last service and may well kill you personally as well as slowly kill us all?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Biospace
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by Biospace »

francovendee wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 12:48pm I'm fed up with people saying public ownership encourages waste of resources. So what? Capitalism is more wasteful and is completely profit driven and ignores anything apart from the dividend for the shareholders.
Private companies have their place but not for water, gas, electricity and health. I'm in two minds about education.
Too right. I've long been of the opinion the utilities should never have been privatised, likewise the railways. It's simply more teams of management chasing ever-decreasing possibilities, with the same people on the ground no matter what, just struggling to get clear messaging from outsourced teams of desk workers.

The drive to deliver to shareholders means there's encouragement for unnecessary consumption. Whole teams study how to maximise demand, which with energy consumption is non-sensical if you consider anyone beyond the shareholders and executives. You could also argue it's crazy for the drug industry to do the same, is there not an incentive to leave people in a state in which they will be more likely to need more medication rather than leading to a state in which people need minimal or no medication?

Governments have capitulated to big business, which won't end well, especially when they're globalist corporations with economies larger than most nations'. The pharmaceutical business appears to operate without undue concern for court cases and fines.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 63402.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 60266.html
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/pfizer- ... id=8477617
reohn2
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by reohn2 »

Cugel wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 11:01am
reohn2 wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 9:25am ....... it's capitalism gone mad only serving shareholders in energy companies and not people.
Capitalism has always been "mad" - if that's defined as acting only in your own short-term financial interests whilst ignoring not only the interests of those exploited (labour "resources", customer "resources" and the resources got from the vulnerable via international murder, theft and environmental despoliation) but also your own longer term financial interest as well as every other kind of interest you might have (short, medium & long term) besides the financial one.

When the weather, global economic meltdown, the argybargy of resource-grabbing kleptocrats going nuclear, a truly gruesome pandemic or one of the many other eflorations of capitalism come a-calling, the fat cats and shareholders will go down with the rest of us. Of course, they think their dosh can somehow buy them the goods and services to give immunity to these perils, which surely should only be suffered by the undeserving poor and others of the hoi-polloi.

Cugel, amateur psychiatrist grade 8C
In the case of utilities,health,education and transport,capitalism IMO has no place,however it does elsewhere under strict law enforcements(I'm dreaming of a better world I know),the opposite extreme is totalitarian "communism" which stifles growth other than for the state's(read politburo, committe's) own beliefs and ends which arent always in the people's interest,as unbridled capitalism's interests aren't.There's a middle ground that benefits the vast majority,six of one and half a dozennof the other if you like.

As for the kleptocracy,they believe that monetary wealth is happiness in a crumbling world in chaos state,they're probably right in the initial stages but down the road it'll be worthless,so they're just buying time,but then aren't we all to a greater or lesser extent.

R2,hoping for the best,but seeing it as it is
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pete75
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Re: Fuel prices

Post by pete75 »

Pebble wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 3:51pm
pete75 wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 10:52am
Pebble wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 11:27pm
the middle one was unusual, it appeared to be driven by a 14 year old schoolgirl, not that is in anyway unusual, but she wasn't playing with a mobile phone, not often you see a teenager driving a tractor and trailer withot a mobile phone in hand!
The tractor in the first picture is nowhere near as big as any of the houses. It just looks like it because of foreshortening.
you do seem to have a bee in your bonnet on this don't you! My original comment of tractors being nearly as big as houses was a tongue in cheek comment and I woud imagine most woud have understood my exageration

However, and just playing here (so please don't take it too seriously)
Fast Tracs (that yellow tractor) about 5m in lenghth
it was pulling a full size tri axle flat bed (ex haulage) trailer so 13.5m
and it was pulling it on a dolly (add at least another 1.5m)

overall Length approx 20 meters (would be totally illegal for a haulier but rules for farmers is in a parallel universe)
and width 2.55m ?

giving a footprint of 51 sq meters

average house built in UK since 2010 = 67.8 sq meters
so if the average is 67.8 there will be plenty not much bigger than an agric tractor and trailer on harvest duties
67.8 sq metres? Seems rather small. Are you talking about normal houses for that people to live in or Wendy houses.

Not much bigger than a tractor and a trailer. Not the same thing as not much bigger than a tractor.
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