Shimano upgrade suggestions

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Martian Tom
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Joined: 1 Aug 2022, 7:54pm

Shimano upgrade suggestions

Post by Martian Tom »

Hello folks,

I'm new to the forum - and also relatively new to bike maintenance. I have a Specialized Sequoia road bike, 2003 vintage (owned by me from new), which I bought at the time as a recommendation for my height and leg length (6' 5", 36" inside leg). I wanted a decent road bike which could also be used as a tourer if needed, so this seemed to be the ideal choice. After 19 years and many thousands of miles of cycling, it still serves me well. I'm not a racer, but am a fairly keen leisure/fitness cyclist, and currently do between 50 and 80 miles a week.

I last had the drivetrain replaced in February, and had the usual 24-gear set - 3 ring chainset, 8-cog cassette. The replacement was a Shimano Claris chainset and a Shimano Tiagra rear derailleur (I understand these to be pretty standard basic components, but I don't really have any complaints). Since then, I've done my own adjustments and indexing, and have managed to improve the performance set by the cycle mechanic who did the replacement. Smooth shifting, no chain rub - all good. I've always been happy with the 3-cog set-up at the front. I mainly use the middle ring, but get good use out of the other two as well, with plenty of hills and straight fast stretches around where I live. I tend to cross over pretty quickly to the middle ring from the others, though - so probably mainly use around 15 gear combinations in total

I just have a couple of questions for you all. Firstly, a few people have told me I might find a switch to a 2-ring chainset with a larger cassette to be just as good, and easier to maintain. I'm not sure about this, and wondered what you might think, based on what I've said. Secondly, whether I switch to 2-ring or stay with 3-ring, if I decided on an upgrade to the current components - maybe to get a bit more top-end speed - are there any particular ones that you would recommend?

Many thanks for any inputs or suggestions anyone can make. :)
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Shimano upgrade suggestions

Post by Jdsk »

Welcome.

It sounds as if you've mastered the adjustments and are happy with the shifting.

What would you hope to improve with any changes (!)? Lower or higher gears at the extremes... ? Is your top-end speed limited by the highest gear combination? And if so what is it?

Jonathan
rareposter
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Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: Shimano upgrade suggestions

Post by rareposter »

Martian Tom wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 3:33pm
I just have a couple of questions for you all. Firstly, a few people have told me I might find a switch to a 2-ring chainset with a larger cassette to be just as good, and easier to maintain. I'm not sure about this, and wondered what you might think, based on what I've said. Secondly, whether I switch to 2-ring or stay with 3-ring, if I decided on an upgrade to the current components - maybe to get a bit more top-end speed - are there any particular ones that you would recommend?
Firstly, I'd say there's little point in replacing a drivetrain that was only put on in Februray, it'll be pretty new with loads of life left in it yet.

A modern 2 x 11 set-up, unless you are doing some seriously steep hills and/or laden touring, will be better than a 3x8 in every way. Lighter, looks better, better shifting, at least the same (potentially more) gear range, less need to be shifting gears at the front.

However, it will also be VERY expensive, you'll need a complete change of the entire groupset and wheels (your current wheels won't fit an 11 speed cassette) and on a nearly 20-year old bike, I'd say it's probably not worth it. The Sequoia was a good bike but it's long since been superseded - the nearest equivalent is probably the Roubaix which is made up to a 64cm frame: https://www.specializedconceptstore.co. ... l/roubaix/

Ultimately, if what you've got works OK and you're happy with it, leave it as is - especially since it's pretty new.
Martian Tom
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Joined: 1 Aug 2022, 7:54pm

Re: Shimano upgrade suggestions

Post by Martian Tom »

Thanks for your replies, folks. Much appreciated.

I probably will stick with what I've got on the bike. Occasionally, I find that something extra at the top end would be handy - but it's probably not often enough to worry about. For most of my cycling, what I have is enough. There are some fairly steep hills on my usual rides, but I'm pretty fit and often don't need to change right down to get up them. The top speed I've managed on the bike is 38 mph - and the older I get, the more nervous I get once I'm up in the 30s going downhill!

At the time, the Sequoia was about the only bike I tried that I felt completely comfortable on - and was the one recommended to me given my measurements. I don't think it's available in the UK now. I have been doing a bit of tentative research to see what's out there now. But this has never let me down, and I'm pretty attached to it. It has a lifetime frame guarantee, and the frame is as solid and (virtually) as clean as the day I bought it. I tend to look after my things! The one thing that may force the issue is if the carbon forks on the front fail. I'm not sure they'd be replaceable now - and even if they were, the cost would probably be astronomic.

Thanks again for your advice.
cycle tramp
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Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Shimano upgrade suggestions

Post by cycle tramp »

If you watch any of the ZengaBros on line videos, you'll probably come across a character called anti-teevee man. There's a great quote of his and it goes something like...

'Do you know what the aim of advertising is? To make you dissatisfied with what you have. That's their goal. It's not about trying to improve your life, but make you dissatisfied and buy new stuff....'

If your gearset works for you and does everything you want it to, then keep it and enjoy using it :-D
Motorhead: god was never on your sidehttps://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=m ... +your+side
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531colin
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Re: Shimano upgrade suggestions

Post by 531colin »

If you have 50 teeth on the front, and 11 on the back, you won't get significantly higher gearing than that anyway.....the pros just pedal faster!

Front fork failure may be non-survivable if its sudden and catastrophic. I would expect the forks to be replaceable, just maybe not the right colour! The essential things to match are fork offset (usually 45mm) axle to crown length (not much difference between road bikes running 25mm tyres) and steerer diameter.....probably a straight inch and eighth alloy steerer 19 years ago)
19 year-old carbon forks would be worth stripping out for a quite close look, I think.
The possible problems depend on the construction; If they are carbon fork blades "bonded" onto an alloy crown/alloy steerer, with alloy dropouts also bonded on then you might want to look for white corrosion of the alloy, which can cause the things to come "unstuck"......particularly if ridden on UK salted winter roads.
Martian Tom
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Joined: 1 Aug 2022, 7:54pm

Re: Shimano upgrade suggestions

Post by Martian Tom »

Thanks, cycle tramp. Anti-teevee Man is probably what most people know me as, given that I haven't had a TV in almost 20 years now. Too many other things to do in my spare time (including, now, repairing my bike). I agree with his sentiment, too. I don't chuck anything away if I can help it, and only if whatever it is is completely knackered and no longer has any use. My washing machine and fridge were both secondhand when I bought them 17 years ago. Still going okay (touch wood). Make do and mend. As a committed green, I can see the waste and destruction advertising and marketing have caused. I'll never be swayed by any of it :wink:

Thanks, too, 531colin. I do keep an eye on the forks. No creaking or anything yet, and no outer signs of any damage. Can't see any white on the alloy, either. The original owner's manual recommended changing the forks every three years to be safe, but every cyclist I've spoken to about it has said the same: makes no sense - except to Specialized's parts department's turnover! I'll keep in mind your advice and look at what's available if I think replacement would be a good idea. I'm glad at least to know that I should be able to find something to fit.

Thanks again.
Jamesh
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Joined: 2 Jan 2017, 5:56pm

Re: Shimano upgrade suggestions

Post by Jamesh »

What sort of cycling do you do??

If touring / audax / sportive then imho 3x is the best option - you can sit in the middle ring mile after mile...

On a race bike then 2x would be better but a bigger improvement would be lighter / deeper wheels and a carbon frame over the spez sequoia.
scottg
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Location: Highland Heights Kentucky,, USA

Re: Shimano upgrade suggestions

Post by scottg »

Martian Tom wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 8:23pm[snip] I'll keep in mind your advice and look at what's available if I think replacement would be a good idea. I'm glad at least to know that I should be able to find something to fit.

Thanks again.
You can always have a steel fork made to fit.
The original fork was a compromise, perfect for a bike in the center
of the size range. The new one can be made with any rake,
and mounts for lights, mudguard and racks.

Locally sourced forks, made with sustainable materials. :)
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NickJP
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Re: Shimano upgrade suggestions

Post by NickJP »

rareposter wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 6:19pmHowever, it will also be VERY expensive, you'll need a complete change of the entire groupset and wheels (your current wheels won't fit an 11 speed cassette) and on a nearly 20-year old bike, I'd say it's probably not worth it. The Sequoia was a good bike but it's long since been superseded - the nearest equivalent is probably the Roubaix which is made up to a 64cm frame: https://www.specializedconceptstore.co. ... l/roubaix/

Ultimately, if what you've got works OK and you're happy with it, leave it as is - especially since it's pretty new.
I'd agree that changing over is not worth it if the existing components are working fine and you're happy with the performance. However, the point you made about needing new wheels only applies to close ratio road cassettes - wide range 11-speed cassettes (34t or larger biggest cog) will fit on wheels originally intended for 8-speed cassettes. I have 11-34 and 11-40 11-speed cassettes on a couple of old wheels that pre-date 11-speed components. When Shimano went to 11-speed on both road and MTB, only the road wheels needed a longer freehub body, as the larger cog sizes on MTB meant that the cassette could overhang the freehub on the inside without the derailleur fouling the spokes in bottom gear. And the largest 11-speed cassettes that Shimano offer in their road range - the 11-34 - will similarly fit on the older shorter freehubs.
Jamesh
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Joined: 2 Jan 2017, 5:56pm

Re: Shimano upgrade suggestions

Post by Jamesh »

531colin wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 7:26pm If you have 50 teeth on the front, and 11 on the back, you won't get significantly higher gearing than that anyway.....the pros just pedal faster!

Front fork failure may be non-survivable if its sudden and catastrophic. I would expect the forks to be replaceable, just maybe not the right colour! The essential things to match are fork offset (usually 45mm) axle to crown length (not much difference between road bikes running 25mm tyres) and steerer diameter.....probably a straight inch and eighth alloy steerer 19 years ago)
19 year-old carbon forks would be worth stripping out for a quite close look, I think.
The possible problems depend on the construction; If they are carbon fork blades "bonded" onto an alloy crown/alloy steerer, with alloy dropouts also bonded on then you might want to look for white corrosion of the alloy, which can cause the things to come "unstuck"......particularly if ridden on UK salted winter roads.
Unless there are obvious signs of corrosion - bubbling paintwork / white flaky powder then I doubt they will be an issue.
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531colin
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Re: Shimano upgrade suggestions

Post by 531colin »

Jamesh wrote: 4 Aug 2022, 8:53am
Unless there are obvious signs of corrosion - bubbling paintwork / white flaky powder then I doubt they will be an issue.
I don't disagree.....but when the "issue" can result in an awful prang, I thought it useful to mention it.
A rider I know quite well recently had a crash when his alloy steerer failed, so if it was me, I would be pulling the forks out and inspecting the steerer, maybe annually? Perhaps you will think me over-cautious. The rider in question does a lot of miles, London Edinburgh London and that type of stuff.
Stevek76
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Re: Shimano upgrade suggestions

Post by Stevek76 »

Curious about the tiagra rear derailleur? Was that some old stock? Tiagra has been higher gears and incompatible pull ratios for quite a few years now.

Regardless, higher tier groupsets don't really get much. They can 'feel' sightly better (or that might just be people justifying the price to themselves) but don't actually physically shift any better, which is 90% about decent cabling and good installation & setup. They can be a little more robust and they save a few grams and you do of course get more gears for finer jumps if you're fussy about cadence.

Compact doubles actually shift quite badly compared to a road triple as the 34 to 50 diameter jump is just too big to really work well.

I've always felt that it's a bit funny that the groupset is often one of the main selling points of a bike yet its about the worst value for money return when speccing one up. Money is better directed at wheels, tyres and frame.
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Martian Tom
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Joined: 1 Aug 2022, 7:54pm

Re: Shimano upgrade suggestions

Post by Martian Tom »

Thanks again for all your advice, folks. Much appreciated.

Steve76. The rear derailleur mech is actually from an earlier drivetrain replacement - about four years ago, when I also had to have the shifters replaced. Everything at the front was replaced in February (Claris chainset, bottom bracket), plus the rear cassette and (obviously) the chain. But not the mech. It's working fine. In fact, doing a cable change last week, I took it off and gave it a good clean and lube.

Mentioning that cable change, though... I did it because when the drivetrain was replaced, neither of the gear cables were. I'd have thought that would have been done as a matter of course for the job, but not so. Maybe its not an absolute necessity if the cables seem okay, but it's something I'd have done myself. Maybe I'm just a bit 'belt and braces' with stuff like that, but my way of thinking about it is that if I'm replacing a tyre, for instance, and the existing tube has been patched - the tube gets replaced, too!

Anyway... I had noticed that there was one gear, and only on the middle chain-ring, that always needed a double-click of the shifter when changing up. The shift from cogs 3 to 4 of the 8-cog set. Changing down again wasn't a problem. Nothing serious, but it was niggling me, and I thought the cable change and re-indexing would probably solve it. Not so, though. Everything is working perfectly now otherwise - no slipping or chain-rub, smooth shifting - but that shift up between those 2 cogs still requires a double-click of the shifter. I tried adjusting the cable tension a bit, but it makes no difference. And it's still only on the middle chain-ring. The others - no problem.

Any ideas what might be causing that? As I said, I can live with it as everything else is okay. But it niggles! :roll:
slowster
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Re: Shimano upgrade suggestions

Post by slowster »

A common cause of that sort of problem is a misaligned/bent derailleur hanger. Unless you have a suitable alignment tool, this is usually something you need to get your local bike shop to check and fix. That said there are ways of doing it without a proper tool, e.g. using a spare wheel by screwing the axle into the dropout, and then using the spare wheel to check for alignment (parallel to the existing wheel) and to re-align/bend the dropout if necessary.

If it is a removable hanger and you don't have a suitable tool, a good quick way to check is to fit a new derailleur hanger and see if that makes a difference: if it does, that is a good indication that that is the problem. It's always advisable to have a spare derailleur hanger anyway. Incidentally, I think a lot of bike shop mechanics report that even a new hanger might not give perfect shifting, and might need fine tuning when installed.

Park Tool video link below:

https://www.parktool.com/en-int/blog/re ... -alignment

R J The Bike Guy's video on doing it without a proper tool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnwreRrorIA
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