The Tory mask slips....

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PedallingSquares
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Re: The Tory mask slips....

Post by PedallingSquares »

djnotts wrote: 7 Aug 2022, 9:43am "I'm not sure that even the British electorate can be taken in by the Tory rhetoric yet again."

Never bet against the stupidity of the English voter. The might of the Tory Establishment propaganda machine will triumph again. And never lose votes by playing to the inherent racism of the English.
This.
They will aim to destroy the character of whoever is opposition leader and it will work.People will forget the lies,lies and more lies,the blatant cronyism throughout Covid and believe whatever they are told about the opposition leader.
The working person is their own worst enemy.
reohn2
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Re: The Tory mask slips....

Post by reohn2 »

djnotts wrote: 7 Aug 2022, 9:43am "I'm not sure that even the British electorate can be taken in by the Tory rhetoric yet again."

Never bet against the stupidity of the English voter. The might of the Tory Establishment propaganda machine will triumph again. And never lose votes by playing to the inherent racism of the English.
Quite!
Nothing would surprise me of the Tory party or the stupidity of the UK voter in their insane belief that doing the same thing over and over again would render a different outcome.
That and a rigged FPTP system means the UK voter only ever has two choices and their willingness to believe what the Tory media tells them seems to be endless :? .

The country is indeed in a mess and worse still,it is utterly divided by the worst possible Brexit that could ever have been,thanks to the blunderings of the worst PM in Johnson the country has ever seen ,who followed the second and third worst PMs the country has ever seen.
As for Sunak and Truss,both members of the worst government the country has ever seen and sychophants of Johnson,so for the next two years the country will slide further into division as the Tories choice of liar attempt to make themselves fit for office,for anyone with a grain of common sense will see through their lies and deceit.Trouble being,common sense isn't all that common in modern day UK!
We'll see,'hope for the best prepare for the worst' as the saying goes,one thing's for sure though Tunbrdge Wells won't catch any harm whatever liar gets to continue to run the country into the abyss.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
pete75
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Re: The Tory mask slips....

Post by pete75 »

reohn2 wrote: 6 Aug 2022, 5:37pm
PedallingSquares wrote: 6 Aug 2022, 10:39am No doubt he will claim "it was taken out of context" but It is a crystal clear the Tories have nothing but contempt for Joe average.....



...yet Joe average seems to fall for their lies and vote them in :roll:
Yep!
And,get this.I was chatting to very nice chap today who claimed in all sincerity that Johnson was the leftwing of the Tory party!
Sadly he probably is now.
Considering what's followed Farage it also seems he was on the left of UKIP.

Can't work out if this is a spoof or real.
1659979273335.jpg
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
djnotts
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Re: The Tory mask slips....

Post by djnotts »

True whether spoof or real.
reohn2
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Re: The Tory mask slips....

Post by reohn2 »

djnotts wrote: 8 Aug 2022, 7:04pm True whether spoof or real.
Agreed!
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
cycle tramp
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Re: The Tory mask slips....

Post by cycle tramp »

Cyclo2022 wrote: 6 Aug 2022, 9:08pm Personally, but I ain't on my own when I say that I would be struck dumb with fear if the Labour lot got in to govern the country!....That would be a complete Nightmare!
Don't get struck dumb. That's what the political process wants you to be... going back to one of the best lines in a Bill Hicks sketch...
'I think the puppet on the right shares my concerns. Well, I think the puppet on the left best represents my aspirations.... Hey, they're being controlled by the same guy... Go back to sleep America your government is in control. Drink beer get fat and stay stupid'...
...to be fair whilst playing 'which political party is better' is always a great bun fight.. if you're going to see some return on your time.. work out what would make the country or the world a better place to live and work for it.

That was a party political broadcast for the anchist group
It's time to go :-)
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Cugel
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Re: The Tory mask slips....

Post by Cugel »

cycle tramp wrote: 13 Aug 2022, 11:08am
Cyclo2022 wrote: 6 Aug 2022, 9:08pm Personally, but I ain't on my own when I say that I would be struck dumb with fear if the Labour lot got in to govern the country!....That would be a complete Nightmare!
Don't get struck dumb. That's what the political process wants you to be... going back to one of the best lines in a Bill Hicks sketch...
'I think the puppet on the right shares my concerns. Well, I think the puppet on the left best represents my aspirations.... Hey, they're being controlled by the same guy... Go back to sleep America your government is in control. Drink beer get fat and stay stupid'...
...to be fair whilst playing 'which political party is better' is always a great bun fight.. if you're going to see some return on your time.. work out what would make the country or the world a better place to live and work for it.

That was a party political broadcast for the anchist group
Indeed - the Red & Blue Klown Show is a distracting entertainment so the audience don't notice the various pickpockets they employ; or the red & blue monsters outside the tent destroying everything and anything in order to sell the good bits.

Will the audience rebel when they can't get fat 'cos the beer is too expensive and fud can't be found anywhere except on the other side of The Channel? Probably - but many will still be stupid and might well vote for the purple party - the last time they'll ever have a vote, which process will be replaced by opportunities to "obey or perish".

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
reohn2
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Re: The Tory mask slips....

Post by reohn2 »

12years of Toryism has ruined this country,the list is endless of their complete and utter mismangement and failure,we can argue the toss on what needs to be done and who can change that,but first things first,one thing that needs doing ASAP is the Tories need ousting from power before thay do anymore damage whilst filling their own and their financier's pockets.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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simonineaston
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Re: The Tory mask slips....

Post by simonineaston »

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six , result happiness.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
Don't forget folks, as our bank balances slips inexorably towards the red, that nice Mr Cameron's comforting words, reminding us that "we're all in this together..."
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Psamathe
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Re: The Tory mask slips....

Post by Psamathe »

It's always very difficult to know what the UK electorate "want" and my gut feeling is more about what I want so the optimist in me hopes the electorate wants the same.

Either way, next General Election most will be significant poorer, significantly colder and Conservative "help" wont have had much impact on that. But can Labour use that adequately? And the British are very good at doing the "turkeys voting for Christmas"

Ism
Mike Sales
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Re: The Tory mask slips....

Post by Mike Sales »

Rhisi's new swimming pool.
rishi swimming pool.jpg
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Tangled Metal
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Re: The Tory mask slips....

Post by Tangled Metal »

I used to prefer to have the "my side's worse than your side" argument until your side got Corbyn and he won that for you lefties.

Then that resulted in a poor opposition. Then on to a tory government that was always going to beat Corbyn significantly and use the majority to eff up royally.

Now we're going into a period of time when both parties will have mediocre leaders. Which is a massive improvement from the corbyn/Johnson years.

My question is, when will we start getting serious political leaders worth voting for? We need the two biggest parties to have real talent and leadership. You can have any electoral system you like but without the people at the top of government and opposition this country won't be much further forward. Imho the whole political class isn't fit for purpose. Ditto the political reporting/ news media.

BTW I had an interesting discussion with a Belgian pre-covid about their system. It was interesting to hear that he was sick of their PR system and looked to our FPTP as giving a definitive government after a GE as being a big positive of our system. You know where you were within a day or two of a GE. I don't suppose you know which country holds the record for time taken to form a government. 2011 it was Belgium at 353 days and talk of partition of Belgium too. A disaster for their form of PR. BTW they beat the previous record held by Cambodia.
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Cugel
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Re: The Tory mask slips....

Post by Cugel »

Tangled Metal wrote: 13 Aug 2022, 6:55pm I used to prefer to have the "my side's worse than your side" argument until your side got Corbyn and he won that for you lefties.

Then that resulted in a poor opposition. Then on to a tory government that was always going to beat Corbyn significantly and use the majority to eff up royally.

Now we're going into a period of time when both parties will have mediocre leaders. Which is a massive improvement from the corbyn/Johnson years.

My question is, when will we start getting serious political leaders worth voting for? We need the two biggest parties to have real talent and leadership. You can have any electoral system you like but without the people at the top of government and opposition this country won't be much further forward. Imho the whole political class isn't fit for purpose. Ditto the political reporting/ news media.

BTW I had an interesting discussion with a Belgian pre-covid about their system. It was interesting to hear that he was sick of their PR system and looked to our FPTP as giving a definitive government after a GE as being a big positive of our system. You know where you were within a day or two of a GE. I don't suppose you know which country holds the record for time taken to form a government. 2011 it was Belgium at 353 days and talk of partition of Belgium too. A disaster for their form of PR. BTW they beat the previous record held by Cambodia.
The essence of your post might be: it ain't the political system, it's the character (or lack of it) in those populating governmental systems. I tend to agree. With our current FPTP "system" we've had good(ish) governments (it's all relative) as well as the bad in our past. I would put the Attlee government post WWII as one of the best, if not the best, ever. We boomers still enjoy the vast benefits it bequeathed us although, sadly, Tory gharks & hoos of various flavours have gradually diminished those benefits, to the point where they're now all in serious jeopardy (what's left of them).

So, how to get people of good character into government? Put another way, how did so many of such bad character get into recent governments?

I have no simple answers (or even complicated ones). Something about our current age suggests there won't be an answer ... but rather the ongoing steady deterioration we see all about us, until the time when things accelerate into a truly chaotic state - i.e. no (nation) state at all. We're close to having no actual government now; and little of the raft of associated necessary institutions that remain functional.

Cugel, a small prophet of doom echoing many others.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
reohn2
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Re: The Tory mask slips....

Post by reohn2 »

Tangled Metal wrote: 13 Aug 2022, 6:55pm .......My question is, when will we start getting serious political leaders worth voting for? We need the two biggest parties to have real talent and leadership.
My simple answer is that I don't know.
Here's a question for you,which would you trust to look after your children and home for an extended period,Corbyn or Johnson?
You can have any electoral system you like but without the people at the top of government and opposition this country won't be much further forward. Imho the whole political class isn't fit for purpose. Ditto the political reporting/ news media.
I agree but the proof of the Tory pudding is selfevident,and their reason they've remained in power for 12 years is due to the idiocy or and the selfinterest of the UK electorate.
BTW I had an interesting discussion with a Belgian pre-covid about their system. It was interesting to hear that he was sick of their PR system and looked to our FPTP as giving a definitive government after a GE as being a big positive of our system. You know where you were within a day or two of a GE. I don't suppose you know which country holds the record for time taken to form a government. 2011 it was Belgium at 353 days and talk of partition of Belgium too. A disaster for their form of PR. BTW they beat the previous record held by Cambodia.
So what do you propose.
BTW not all PR systems of government are the same.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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reohn2
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Re: The Tory mask slips....

Post by reohn2 »

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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
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