Grant Shapps panders to The Mail

thirdcrank
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Re: Grant Shapps panders to The Mail

Post by thirdcrank »

I think a standard work is Folk Devils and Moral Panics (1972) by Stanley Cohen
cycle tramp
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Re: Grant Shapps panders to The Mail

Post by cycle tramp »

If anyone can quote the studies which link 'anti-social behaviour towards cyclists and media news stories' we could each write this letter to Shapps...

'I wish to put you on legal notice that should I receive any anti-social behaviour from motorists when I am cycling, I may seek legal damages against yourself and/or your political party, using as evidence the following studies (er.. that's where you folks come in with the names of the studies) which link anti-social driver behaviour towards cyclists following media news stories'
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freiston
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Re: Grant Shapps panders to The Mail

Post by freiston »

I've seen some funny responses on Twitter, for example (paraphrased): "Personally, I think registration plates for bikes are a great idea - I'm going to get a personalised plate and ride like a [expletives go here]", and "I'll keep mine in my bag and if I get stopped, I'll say it fell off - if it's good enough for Audi RS5 drivers . . ."
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
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Philip Benstead
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Re: Grant Shapps panders to The Mail

Post by Philip Benstead »

Has anybody made the point, where would you place a regisration plate/sign on a cycle and what size/configuation would it be?
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elmo
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Re: Grant Shapps panders to The Mail

Post by elmo »

I have made the following numberplate - F05HAPPS
fastpedaller
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Re: Grant Shapps panders to The Mail

Post by fastpedaller »

The big problem with any number plate/registration rules is that the lawbreakers will be the ones who are unregistered/uninsured .... err wait a minute.... isn't that just like some unregistered, uninsured motorist lawbreakers who cause much more damage? Maybe Shapps should put his efforts towards motorist lawbreakers? The car insurance/registration/MOT system is computerised so it shouldn't be too difficult for the computer to identify the missing links!
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Vantage
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Re: Grant Shapps panders to The Mail

Post by Vantage »

fastpedaller wrote: 18 Aug 2022, 9:26am ... isn't that just like some unregistered, uninsured motorist lawbreakers who cause much more damage?
It's the ones who are registered and insured that I worry about.
Some just couldn't care less about the consequences of their actions. Not surprising really. The consequences to them personally are not much more that a slap on the wrist. If it doesn't keep the motorists who had to pass a test in line, what's to say it'll work on a minority of cyclists?
Shapps is wasting his time.
Bill


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fastpedaller
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Re: Grant Shapps panders to The Mail

Post by fastpedaller »

I understand and agree with your comment, however it would appear from statistics that the worst offences (both in human terms and financial) are by those who are driving uninsured/untaxed vehicles. It's a strange conundrum (to me anyway) as I would have thought they'd drive 'carefully' in order to 'stay under the radar' :roll:
Carlton green
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Re: Grant Shapps panders to The Mail

Post by Carlton green »

Vantage wrote: 18 Aug 2022, 10:56am Shapps is wasting his time.
Perhaps, but I think his sound bites are not really about transport but rather about politics within the Conservative party.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
fastpedaller
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Re: Grant Shapps panders to The Mail

Post by fastpedaller »

Indeed - He's planning his future, not the country's :roll:
pete75
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Re: Grant Chapps panders to The Mail

Post by pete75 »

pwa wrote: 6 Aug 2022, 1:48pm I want drivers who kill to be given sentences that reflect the fact that a life has been lost.
I want cyclists who kill (far rarer) to be given sentences that reflect the fact that a life has been lost.
I want both.
I want drivers who kill to be given sentences that reflect their level of culpability.
I want cyclists who kill to be given sentences that reflect their level of culpability.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Tangled Metal
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Re: Grant Shapps panders to The Mail

Post by Tangled Metal »

Grant schapps is only suffering from one thing. The loss of a ministerial job once the new tory leader gets in. For all his faults boris hasn't been a bad for cycling as you'd expect from the tory party. Schapps is distancing himself from boris and getting his face into the public arena as a job audition with a new tory leader who is probably going to be less than positive about cyclists.

Let's be honest here, it's Schapps better or worse than Grayling?
qwerty360
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Re: Grant Chapps panders to The Mail

Post by qwerty360 »

pete75 wrote: 18 Aug 2022, 1:25pm
pwa wrote: 6 Aug 2022, 1:48pm I want drivers who kill to be given sentences that reflect the fact that a life has been lost.
I want cyclists who kill (far rarer) to be given sentences that reflect the fact that a life has been lost.
I want both.
I want drivers who kill to be given sentences that reflect their level of culpability.
I want cyclists who kill to be given sentences that reflect their level of culpability.
This.

TBH My main issue with the debate is that changing the law should be remove a few words (vehicle vs mechanically propelled vehicle) from ~4 laws and add sentencing guidelines. This should have been doable in less time than Charlie Allistons court case...

But sentencing should all but limit the MAXIMUM penalty available to a cyclist to close to MINIMUM penalty issued to a driver.

WRT charlie Allison, I think he was under punished. I think changing the law would have resulted in a SMALLER penalty because there is plenty of case law for motorists in similar situations. (Per Rhylls Cycle club incident the vehicle not being road worthy isn't proof of DWDCA let alone DD and in plenty of cases DWDCA even where death results won't get you jailed...)

We are suddenly adding discussions re insurance, tax, licence plates, all of which are irrelevent (cheaper to insure all cyclists than to tax and mandate insurance, per why Swiss scrapped it; Every cyclist involved in a fatal accident with pedestrian in UK in at least the last 20 years has been identified; More milage by uninsured cars on fake plates than cyclists in UK...). I suspect at least part of this is to derail traffic law reforms (you know; the ones the government promised in 2014 iirc (if not earlier...)) wtih another chunk being distract from whatever Grant Shapps etc have done recently that would get them kicked out of ministerial role if it was public...


Another important point is people have brought up how few pedestrian deaths there are; I suspect the stats aren't actually pedestrian deaths, but deaths in collisions between pedestrian and cyclist; I.e. I expect those numbers include where it was the cyclist not the pedestrian who died.
simonhill
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Re: Grant Shapps panders to The Mail

Post by simonhill »

Another important point is people have brought up how few pedestrian deaths there are; I suspect the stats aren't actually pedestrian deaths, but deaths in collisions between pedestrian and cyclist; I.e. I expect those numbers include where it was the cyclist not the pedestrian who died.

Good point (if correct).


.......but what about dogs. Similar number of deaths per year. Licence them and make them wear an identity waistcoat. Maybe a new policy for Ms Truss.
pete75
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Re: Grant Shapps panders to The Mail

Post by pete75 »

simonhill wrote: 18 Aug 2022, 3:18pm Another important point is people have brought up how few pedestrian deaths there are; I suspect the stats aren't actually pedestrian deaths, but deaths in collisions between pedestrian and cyclist; I.e. I expect those numbers include where it was the cyclist not the pedestrian who died.

Good point (if correct).


.......but what about dogs. Similar number of deaths per year. Licence them and make them wear an identity waistcoat. Maybe a new policy for Ms Truss.
Where will this trivial populism end? The current problems facing the country, poverty, huge energy bills, failing NHS, shortage of housing etc will make many people's lives miserable and cause more far deaths than the topic being discussed. Cyclists killing pedestrians is such a rare event it's irrelevant. Shapps comments are merely an attempt to distract from the things I've mentioned.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
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