Grant Shapps panders to The Mail

Post Reply
User avatar
Revolution
Posts: 218
Joined: 20 Feb 2013, 3:23pm
Location: North Somerset and Bristol

Grant Shapps panders to The Mail

Post by Revolution »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62444889
This country is being run by populists who create policy that plays well with The Mail and avoids making any decisions that may be uncomfortable for that rag's readers to stomach.
Last edited by Revolution on 6 Aug 2022, 1:48pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bonefishblues
Posts: 11009
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Grant Chapps panders to The Mail

Post by Bonefishblues »

His name is Shapps.

I was listening to Matthew Briggs on R4 this morning. It's worth a listen - he was calm, unemotive and cogent in explaining it's not about punishment or retribution, rather it (his campaign) is about reducing the pain and confusion caused by the anachronistic way that the law (doesn't) applies to cycles in these circumstances. I found his testimony very compelling, unlike many victims' relatives in these circumstances.
Gee
Posts: 102
Joined: 24 Mar 2021, 10:11pm

Re: Grant Chapps panders to The Mail

Post by Gee »

Revolution wrote: 6 Aug 2022, 11:00am https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62444889
This country is being run by populists who create policy that plays well with The Mail and avoids making any decisions that may be uncomfortable for that rag's readers to stomach.
I completely agree about the way that the country is being run. That said, I think I support the idea of this legislation. We ought to be aware that we can injure others and be responsible, and that if we’re not there may well be consequences.
pwa
Posts: 17366
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Grant Chapps panders to The Mail

Post by pwa »

Bonefishblues wrote: 6 Aug 2022, 11:16am His name is Shapps.

I was listening to Matthew Briggs on R4 this morning. It's worth a listen - he was calm, unemotive and cogent in explaining it's not about punishment or retribution, rather it (his campaign) is about reducing the pain and confusion caused by the anachronistic way that the law (doesn't) applies to cycles in these circumstances. I found his testimony very compelling, unlike many victims' relatives in these circumstances.
I heard that too, and had me feeling that he is right, and we do need a law covers this issue. As he said, such a law would not be used often, as causing death through careless cycling is uncommon, but it would be good to have such a law to hand when it is needed.

Opposing such a law could look like defending the indefensible. And few of us would want to do that. We would be much better off embracing this and saying, yes, let's get this clarified in law, then move on to other road safety issues that will protect the public from more dangerous forms of transport.
awavey
Posts: 300
Joined: 25 Jul 2016, 12:04am

Re: Grant Chapps panders to The Mail

Post by awavey »

Bonefishblues wrote: 6 Aug 2022, 11:16am His name is Shapps.

I was listening to Matthew Briggs on R4 this morning. It's worth a listen - he was calm, unemotive and cogent in explaining it's not about punishment or retribution, rather it (his campaign) is about reducing the pain and confusion caused by the anachronistic way that the law (doesn't) applies to cycles in these circumstances. I found his testimony very compelling, unlike many victims' relatives in these circumstances.
really ? because it feels like he has been taking it on as a vendetta to avenge his wifes death, how many cyclists have been killed by motorists since 2016 ? how many pedestrians have been killed by motorists since 2016 ? has Mr Briggs gone to any of those families to help them reduce the pain and confusion they get when the CPS charges the motorist merely with careless driving ? if they even charge some of them at all, those they do charge often only get suspended prison sentences as a result.

so wheres the anachronism when no one has ever been handed a 14 year sentence for death by dangerous driving, and there were existing laws the CPS can use to deal with cyclists who kill pedestrians, https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2022-07- ... pedestrian

that cyclist got 2 years, unlike this chap here, who was uninsured, speeding, had taken drugs, was using his phone to text
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/206015 ... uthampton/

just careless driving, 21months, 3 more than Charlie Alliston got, but of course had Alliston been driving a car instead its likely he could have walked away with no prison time at all, first offence, sun in his eyes, they stepped out in front of him and all that, because we dont hold motorists to the same level of responsibility that Mr Briggs wants for cycling.

but there you go, Im sure now Mr Briggs has his law, we will hear no more from him on this subject as his campaign is completed...but I wont hold my breath.
simonhill
Posts: 5226
Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 11:28am
Location: Essex

Re: Grant Chapps panders to The Mail

Post by simonhill »

Does anyone know how many pedestrians are killed every year by cyclists.

I imagine it must be plenty for that nice Mr Shapps and the oh so reasonable Daily Mail to show concern.
pwa
Posts: 17366
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Grant Chapps panders to The Mail

Post by pwa »

simonhill wrote: 6 Aug 2022, 1:05pm Does anyone know how many pedestrians are killed every year by cyclists.

I imagine it must be plenty for that nice Mr Shapps and the oh so reasonable Daily Mail to show concern.
Matthew Briggs himself said the number was very low. But is that a good reason not to have the right law to hand on those rare occasions when it is needed? Mr Briggs described the pain of losing a loved one, then having the police explain that the person responsible can only be charged with an offence that carries a low maximum sentence. I think Mr Briggs was right to be upset about that.
Ron
Posts: 1384
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 9:07pm

Re: Grant Chapps panders to The Mail

Post by Ron »

Briggs
Last edited by Ron on 6 Aug 2022, 1:28pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ron
Posts: 1384
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 9:07pm

Re: Grant Chapps panders to The Mail

Post by Ron »

Briggs has had six years to hone his campaign and has realised that his earlier demonisation of cyclists has won him more enemies than friends, hence his calm and unemotive manner now.
The number of incidents of this kind occuring would suggest that cyclists are already well aware of the consequences of any irresponsibility.
There are countless examples of irresponsible motor vehicle drivers getting off with very light or no punishments, but that is a harder nut to crack. Shapps has gone for the soft target and in doing so has distracted the populace from those causing the greatest mayhem on our roads.
User avatar
freiston
Posts: 1503
Joined: 6 Oct 2013, 10:20am
Location: Coventry

Re: Grant Chapps panders to The Mail

Post by freiston »

Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
Bonefishblues
Posts: 11009
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Grant Chapps panders to The Mail

Post by Bonefishblues »

awavey wrote: 6 Aug 2022, 12:50pm
Bonefishblues wrote: 6 Aug 2022, 11:16am His name is Shapps.

I was listening to Matthew Briggs on R4 this morning. It's worth a listen - he was calm, unemotive and cogent in explaining it's not about punishment or retribution, rather it (his campaign) is about reducing the pain and confusion caused by the anachronistic way that the law (doesn't) applies to cycles in these circumstances. I found his testimony very compelling, unlike many victims' relatives in these circumstances.
really ? because it feels like he has been taking it on as a vendetta to avenge his wifes death, how many cyclists have been killed by motorists since 2016 ? how many pedestrians have been killed by motorists since 2016 ? has Mr Briggs gone to any of those families to help them reduce the pain and confusion they get when the CPS charges the motorist merely with careless driving ? if they even charge some of them at all, those they do charge often only get suspended prison sentences as a result.

so wheres the anachronism when no one has ever been handed a 14 year sentence for death by dangerous driving, and there were existing laws the CPS can use to deal with cyclists who kill pedestrians, https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2022-07- ... pedestrian

that cyclist got 2 years, unlike this chap here, who was uninsured, speeding, had taken drugs, was using his phone to text
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/206015 ... uthampton/

just careless driving, 21months, 3 more than Charlie Alliston got, but of course had Alliston been driving a car instead its likely he could have walked away with no prison time at all, first offence, sun in his eyes, they stepped out in front of him and all that, because we dont hold motorists to the same level of responsibility that Mr Briggs wants for cycling.

but there you go, Im sure now Mr Briggs has his law, we will hear no more from him on this subject as his campaign is completed...but I wont hold my breath.
Yes, really.

I also suggest look up the definition of 'vendetta' before using it so loosely in what is a debate about the deaths of individuals. Mr Briggs' attitude was the very antithesis of someone waging a vendetta.

Your viewpoint will not prevail against Mr Briggs, nor is it likely to, based on your contribution, I suggest.
User avatar
horizon
Posts: 11275
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Grant Chapps panders to The Mail

Post by horizon »

Bonefishblues wrote: 6 Aug 2022, 11:16am I found his testimony very compelling, unlike many victims' relatives in these circumstances.
I explained patiently my view to Mrs H that while Mr Briggs had a good case, the fact that the BBC appeared to have allowed him longer than the PM might get on Radio 4 demonstrated that there was something else going on here and all was not what it seemed.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
pwa
Posts: 17366
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Grant Chapps panders to The Mail

Post by pwa »

I want drivers who kill to be given sentences that reflect the fact that a life has been lost.
I want cyclists who kill (far rarer) to be given sentences that reflect the fact that a life has been lost.
I want both.
simonhill
Posts: 5226
Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 11:28am
Location: Essex

Re: Grant Chapps panders to The Mail

Post by simonhill »

pwa wrote: 6 Aug 2022, 1:12pm
simonhill wrote: 6 Aug 2022, 1:05pm Does anyone know how many pedestrians are killed every year by cyclists.

I imagine it must be plenty for that nice Mr Shapps and the oh so reasonable Daily Mail to show concern.
Matthew Briggs himself said the number was very low. But is that a good reason not to have the right law to hand on those rare occasions when it is needed? Mr Briggs described the pain of losing a loved one, then having the police explain that the person responsible can only be charged with an offence that carries a low maximum sentence. I think Mr Briggs was right to be upset about that.
I wasn't questioning the need for the law, just whether it warranted a full front page, plus all the other stuff.

Oh, there's a national crisis looming, PM and Chancellor on their hols, Govt is rudderless so let's talk about a very very few cyclists.
Last edited by simonhill on 6 Aug 2022, 1:55pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bonefishblues
Posts: 11009
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Grant Chapps panders to The Mail

Post by Bonefishblues »

pwa wrote: 6 Aug 2022, 1:48pm I want drivers who kill to be given sentences that reflect the fact that a life has been lost.
I want cyclists who kill (far rarer) to be given sentences that reflect the fact that a life has been lost.
I want both.
I agree completely.
Post Reply