Gravel road riding

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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Cugel
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Re: Gravel road riding

Post by Cugel »

Benz3ne wrote: 8 Aug 2022, 8:43am
Croeso i Cymru :D I, too, am in West Wales (Swansea, to be more precise) and it's certainly got a nice expanse of forestry, bridleways, etc.
My move to a gravel bike has proven to be worthwhile (read: fun) too.
Perhaps we shouldn't broadcast just how good it is out here for the cyclists of every ilk & tittle? They'll come flocking, you see! Just now, I think of Fforest Brechfa as all mine as I rarely see anyone else, despite being in it for at least a couple of hours every day walking the dogs (and now cycling).

Yesterday I saw half a dozen folk around Abergorlech, at the start of my gravel section in the ride. Once I was 400 yards up the track, I saw no one else until I got to the top of the Fforest at Waun Post-Gwyn, where the red MTB trail starts and finishes, 9km later. One bloke sat in his car in the small car park there.

I'd ridden to Abergorlech through Llanybydder, Rhydcymerau and Llansawel on the road; and back down through Llanybydder on the road from the end of the gravel section. Away from Llanybydder, which is quite populous, I saw no more than half a dozen (moving) cars! Perfek cycling country, eh? :-)

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
Tim Holman
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Re: Gravel road riding

Post by Tim Holman »

Yes, Cugel, keep it quiet, that's what I say: quiet means no crowds, no queues of 4x4s or 2x4s, no smelly engines, no mess in leafy corners, less litter and less noise. That suits me fine. Keep it quiet. It's my motto,
Tim
Jamesh
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Re: Gravel road riding

Post by Jamesh »

Cugel wrote: 8 Aug 2022, 12:30pm
Jamesh wrote: 7 Aug 2022, 10:30pm
Might be a bit far for you but I cycled around Llyn Brianne Dam & Reservoir but could only go half way due to being on a road bike but it looks like you can do a full circumnavigation on gravel bikes?
I do have a "'round Lynn Brianne" ride plotted on OS Maps, which tells me that it's 98km and 1899M of climbing from my front door back to the same door later on, when I'll be a shadow of my former self. :-) Such a ride is within my current capabilities although it's about 2X as far as my habitual rides, which are often of the same climb rate (around 1000M every 45-50K).

A cafe at Tregaron might be necessary. Or I could stuff that pannier with cake. The last third of the ride is mostly down the gradual downhill from Tregaron to Lampeter, although there is a steep 100M climb out of Lampeter on the final leg home at the end. All it needs is a following wind and perhaps the ladywife will go too. A riding partner increases the pleasure and decreases the fatigue, I find.

The route I've plotted is all on tarmac roads - although some of them feel like gravel roads once one gets into the Cambrians proper, as I know from various forays around Ffarmers in the Twrch valley. However, it is possible to make a shorter circuit of this route by taking a gravel road over the tops and down into Llanddewi Brefi, missing out the dog-leg to Tregaron that the road route takes.

Persuading the ladywife (my only riding partner just now) to go on such a ride is beyond me at the moment. In the four years since she's taken up cycling instead of running, I've got her up from 25km to 50km with all the hills. She regards longer rides as self-abuse, just yet ... but I'm working on her! A lack of sufficient cafes in this area is part of the problem, as a halfway stop and fuel makes a big difference to one's mental stamina when it comes to the longer rides.

Cugel
Tell her that cycling keeps fitness and saves damage to joints that lots of running does!

I cycle in summer and run in winter!! I find winter cycling too cold!!
Jon in Sweden
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Re: Gravel road riding

Post by Jon in Sweden »

I'd never done any gravel riding before moving to Sweden a couple of weeks ago.

Needless to say, we're somewhat spoiled here. With us being 70% forested in our area, there is a network of forest roads. The issue comes in determining which are smooth enough for a gravel bike and which require an MTB. I found this out to my peril the other night when I punctured twice within 5km on one road that was surfaced with 50-70mm pebbles. Ideal for a timber wagon but not so much for 38mm tyres.

The gravel riding is also a form of swim touring for me. We've got hundreds of lakes close to home and I quite often stop enroute and have a (skinny) dip before resuming my ride. It's really lovely.

The absolute lack of traffic and people is wonderful. In 53km yesterday (39km on gravel), I only saw 4 cars and a timber lorry loading until the 50km point where I joined the main road back into the village (when I saw maybe 10 cars in 3km). The only time that I've had that kind of quietness on the road in the UK is Exmoor at 06:45 in the morning on a weekend.

Photos from yesterday's ride. That track is very representative of what I'm riding on:

Image

Image
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Vantage
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Re: Gravel road riding

Post by Vantage »

I have to say, I'm rather jealous of you cugel! Those pictures look like the sorts of places I could happily be lost in.
+1 for keeping it secret.
Up here, the forest trust had the bright idea of making a proper car park near the entrance points of my local wild moor trails. More people followed. Then they gave permission for one of those takeaway food caravan things to be permanently (I think) parked up there and added some picnic benched and tables.
Where once I felt alone and away from the maddening crowds of civilisation I'm now constantly surrounded by ramblers, dog walkers, mtb'ers, families with young kids etc. Rubbish on the moors as you expect has increased although not dramatically, but still, there should be none.
Gone is the feeling of cycling through the wilderness. These days I feel like I'm in a local country park instead.
They're even building new trails. It's horrible what's happening.
Bill


“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.
Grandad
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Re: Gravel road riding

Post by Grandad »

I have to say, I'm rather jealous of you cugel! Those pictures look like the sorts of places I could happily be lost in.
+1 for keeping it secret.
Up here, the forest trust had the bright idea of making a proper car park near the entrance points of my local wild moor trails. More people followed. Then they gave permission for one of those takeaway food caravan things to be permanently (I think) parked up there and added some picnic benched and tables.
Where once I felt alone and away from the maddening crowds of civilisation I'm now constantly surrounded by ramblers, dog walkers, mtb'ers, families with young kids etc. Rubbish on the moors as you expect has increased although not dramatically, but still, there should be none.
Gone is the feeling of cycling through the wilderness. These days I feel like I'm in a local country park instead.
They're even building new trails. It's horrible what's happening.
Sounds as though you don't like the idea of other people enjoying the outdoors .
Benz3ne
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Re: Gravel road riding

Post by Benz3ne »

Jon in Sweden wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 7:09am I'd never done any gravel riding before moving to Sweden a couple of weeks ago.

Needless to say, we're somewhat spoiled here. With us being 70% forested in our area, there is a network of forest roads. The issue comes in determining which are smooth enough for a gravel bike and which require an MTB. I found this out to my peril the other night when I punctured twice within 5km on one road that was surfaced with 50-70mm pebbles. Ideal for a timber wagon but not so much for 38mm tyres.

The gravel riding is also a form of swim touring for me. We've got hundreds of lakes close to home and I quite often stop enroute and have a (skinny) dip before resuming my ride. It's really lovely.

The absolute lack of traffic and people is wonderful. In 53km yesterday (39km on gravel), I only saw 4 cars and a timber lorry loading until the 50km point where I joined the main road back into the village (when I saw maybe 10 cars in 3km). The only time that I've had that kind of quietness on the road in the UK is Exmoor at 06:45 in the morning on a weekend.

Photos from yesterday's ride. That track is very representative of what I'm riding on:

Image

Image
That is beautiful. Would you host me so I can experience it for myself? :lol:
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Vantage
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Re: Gravel road riding

Post by Vantage »

Grandad wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 10:09am
Sounds as though you don't like the idea of other people enjoying the outdoors .
Not so much people. It's the idiots among them I take issue with. More people = more idiots.
Bill


“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.
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Cugel
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Re: Gravel road riding

Post by Cugel »

Jon in Sweden wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 7:09am
Needless to say, we're somewhat spoiled here. With us being 70% forested in our area, there is a network of forest roads. The issue comes in determining which are smooth enough for a gravel bike and which require an MTB. I found this out to my peril the other night when I punctured twice within 5km on one road that was surfaced with 50-70mm pebbles. Ideal for a timber wagon but not so much for 38mm tyres.

The gravel riding is also a form of swim touring for me. We've got hundreds of lakes close to home and I quite often stop enroute and have a (skinny) dip before resuming my ride. It's really lovely.

Image

Image
I be envious of your opportunities for skinny-dipping, as is the ladywife (a very keen swimmer). Perhaps I'll get a chance if the Llyn Brianne ride gets done - although the road and tracks seems to be mostly 50 to 100M above the water, with steep banks down the sides. Gravelling, swimming and mynydd-scrambling all at once!

That pic of your gravel road is a pic of pristine gravel loveliness! How can you get a puncture on those little 50-70mm pebbles you mention? The Fforest Brechfa logging tracks have everything from compacted minced mudstone and slate-shard to geet big chunks of granite, lorried in to reinforce (some of) the soggy spots. Also, the brash gets everywhere. The Welsh loggers are not so neat as them Swedes, one suspects.

However, no punctures for me on the 45mm tyres (so far) even with tubes in rather than tubeless. Has some rascal been scattering those tack things in your forest, in an effort to preserve the ways for mere walkers or even those skiing types!? :-)

Today I may be receiving the bits and pieces I haven't already got to make the gravel wheels & tyres tubeless. They're "tubeless ready" but need a bit of tape re-inforcing as well as the sticky goo in them. (The stuff I have is getting a bit too claggy). Also, a pair of longer valves. I know from riding a pair of tubeless 30mm Schwalbe G-Ones on the previous winter road bike, for about 6 years, that punctures are reduced (in fact I had none) even though one finds thorns and glass bits stuck through the tyres when they get changed. So ....

What kind of punctures were you getting on that beautiful track? Were they penetrations or cuts; and how big?

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
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Cugel
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Re: Gravel road riding

Post by Cugel »

Some pics of typical Brechfa gravel roads, taken whilst dog walking rather than cycling.

Will I be brave enough to ride them in their winter state? Mud, slippery slimes, flooded potholes of unknown depth ........
Brechfa gravel roads (2 of 45).JPG
Brechfa gravel roads (4 of 45).JPG
Brechfa gravel roads (5 of 45).JPG
Brechfa gravel roads (9 of 45).JPG
Brechfa gravel roads (11 of 45).JPG
Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Gravel road riding

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Cugel wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 12:03pm Some pics of typical Brechfa gravel roads, taken whilst dog walking rather than cycling.

Will I be brave enough to ride them in their winter state? Mud, slippery slimes, flooded potholes of unknown depth ........

Brechfa gravel roads (2 of 45).JPG

Brechfa gravel roads (4 of 45).JPG

Brechfa gravel roads (5 of 45).JPG

Brechfa gravel roads (9 of 45).JPG

Brechfa gravel roads (11 of 45).JPG

Cugel
Personal assessment of the Cugel-trax:
1. Okay wide wide tyres and big mud clearances. Keep to the edge.
2. Excellent.
3. Bumpy. Large volume, low pressure tyres will be a benefit, likely more so than suspension. Think 2.5" plus.
4. Excellent.
5. Bumpy. As 3.
Tim Holman
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Re: Gravel road riding

Post by Tim Holman »

Cugel, of course you will! But keep it quiet! No Snack Trailers or signposts required.
Tim
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Cugel
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Re: Gravel road riding

Post by Cugel »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 12:19pm
Personal assessment of the Cugel-trax:
1. Okay wide wide tyres and big mud clearances. Keep to the edge.
2. Excellent.
3. Bumpy. Large volume, low pressure tyres will be a benefit, likely more so than suspension. Think 2.5" plus.
4. Excellent.
5. Bumpy. As 3.
At present I have 45mm (42mm on the rims) Schwalbe G-One Allrounds on the gravel/winter bike. These clag to all things dry with a great amount of grab. Wet may be another thing, though, especially wet mud.

The new bike has already been had-at in typical cyclist fashion, with various parts swapped out. There's a COBBL-GOBBL seatpin in there, with about 20mm of boing in it; and a red shift boingy stem of similar boing-range. This and the 45mm tyres do seem to make the bike go over the rougher stuff fairly well ... but I haven't really tackled the most-rough yet.

Ever looking for an excuse to consume shiny bike parts (even if they won't stay shiny on a gravel bike) I am contemplating some 650B wheels that will allow me to get those even larger tyres on you mention. And they might also be dedicated gravellers of the Schwalbe G-One Bite type or similar, with bigger gripping studs for the wet days with all that mud and gravel-paste.

However, the bike also has to be my winter bike. (And, as we know, summer passes quickly to autumn, which can be wet in West Wales; and lasts only 5 days before its winter). I have the mudguards to put on, which will cover up to 48mm wide tyres and so allow the continued use of those 45mm G-One Allrounds. I do like their improved grab o' the road when braking.

But I read that mudguards on gravel bikes (i.e. when ridden in the forest and other gravelly spots) are not a good idea, as brash and even a rock can be picked up then jam, risking various events and damage, including an over-the-bars incident. I am both soft and brittle now, aged 73, so don't fancy even gravel rash, let alone a broken hip!

***************
From time to time, the National Resources Wales calls in the gravel road menders. They also call in the logging machines too, though. The latter churn up the roads and the former attempt to mend them - an ever evolving scenario. They have a Special Batrachoid that inspects the roads for faults, recommending the movement of rocks from here to there, as well as the replacement of some mud where appropriate.

Cugel
Attachments
Brechfa gravel roads (29 of 45).JPG
Brechfa gravel roads (23 of 45).JPG
Brechfa gravel roads (15 of 45).JPG
Brechfa gravel roads (13 of 45).JPG
Brechfa gravel roads (12 of 45).JPG
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
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Cugel
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Re: Gravel road riding

Post by Cugel »

Tim Holman wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 1:23pm Cugel, of course you will! But keep it quiet! No Snack Trailers or signposts required.
Tim
Yes, we'd better not have any forum readers copying this thread to that anti-social meedya!

The MTBers have a sign up already, though. Brechfa has two MTB trails, built and maintained to a very good standard. But I can count on the fingers of all three of my hands the number of times I've seen anyone using them, despite going through the forest every day for nearly 4 years now.
Brechfa gravel roads (3 of 45).JPG
Those tracks are too technical for me on me gravel bike, though. I would probably have to wear a helmet! Ugh. :-)
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
slowster
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Re: Gravel road riding

Post by slowster »

I ride a fair bit on similar tracks. In summer I ride a derailleur geared drop barred bike with 40mm or ~45mm slick tyres and with mudguards. In winter/wet conditions I use 60mm semi-slick Schwalbe Big Apples and 65mm/75mm mudguards with 20mm clearance between tyre and mudguard. I would not use the latter off the actual tracks because the tyres slip and slide in purely muddy ground, but I find them adequate on muddy gravel thanks to the large contact patch and relatively fast rolling on road sections (but I imagine hills like those in Brechfa Forest might make a knobbly MTB tyre a better choice).

I think riding off road on tracks like that in winter is a matter of a) deciding on your priorities, and b) paying for them (in physical discomfort, or in money to buy or build a bike that meets your particular requirements for the conditions).
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