Cugel wrote: ↑16 Aug 2022, 9:17am There seems to be rather a lot of romanticism, nostalgia and other human emotions involved when judging bicycle types and materials. Perhaps these feelings exert themselves to such a degree that those feeling them have their more physical feelings altered as part of the experience?
Personally I've ridden many steel-frame bikes over more than six decades, from the inexpensive off-the-shelf through to the lovingly hand-made just for me and my purposes. The pinnacles were perhaps a handbuilt 531SL racing frame, which was certainly very good for that purpose; and a 531 Ribble touring frame that did thousands of happy miles across the northern Pennines and back. I've also ridden gas-pipers but also frames made of exotic Columbus tubing.
However, none of the steel framed bikes I've owned over nearly five decades came anywhere near the comfort of a modern CF frame of the properly designed & built kind I now use. Nowhere near.
Of course, I haven't ridden all steel framed bikes and there may be a magical build that can manage the comfort of a modern CF frame. For some reason, I'm sceptical. And so are my nether and hands.
Not to say, either, that steel-framed bikes aren't fit for purpose. I did a lot of miles on those I owned and enjoyed (if that's the right term) every one of them, adapting myself to the bike and it's inherent discomforts. Still, why get romantic about a machine?
Cugel
Romanticism, nostalgia and other emotions aren't qualities engineers appraise when they compare works of engineering, if they choose not to. But yes, for many, they can be very important and are no less a reason to derive enjoyment from something than losing a kg or three with intelligent use of more expensive materials. More subtle psychologies can be more difficult to filter out than nostalgia in an honest appraisal, but plenty do, plenty don't.
I'd expect nothing less than supreme comfort from a modern CF bike well made and well tailored to the rider, costing several £thousands - better than anything steel. But lack of comfort with steel isn't a problem for most of us riding it, but I do admit it's the most under-rated quality of any bike used along even well-surfaced roads, let alone back roads of the North Pennines or Pembrokeshire. I envy your extra comfort, but also choose not to sacrifice the qualities I enjoy, for those you do.
If this means I'm a bit more tired or have travelled slightly less far, that's not a problem, for me. I value the properties of steel under a range of stresses and strains, its durability, the ability to easily braze on new fittings, the aesthetics of a trad English touring bike, even. I even actively relish the fact it's not almost new, but can cover distances very nearly as capably as something which is. Added together, this comes to more than a few hundred or thousand grams and even more comfort, for me and presumably for many of those who choose likewise. If I was riding 500 or 600 miles a week, priorities would change.
In the same way I use OS maps and my own brain rather than an artificial one to navigate and route plan, which I accept may mean the odd extra stop to have another look at a map, that's fine by me since there's a host of benefits from map reading which aren't there when following directions on a screen. But I also have the choice of using modern technology, if I choose or need. I don't use a fast-depreciating car as a daily hack to take the wear and tear of family holidays and the school run, but it's high quality if only likely worth £2k, but slowly increasing in value as each extra 10,000 miles roll by. We can often choose have something materially more expensive or better, it's just a matter of where we all choose to hop off to enjoy the view up the hill with no summit.
If it were 1937 and my bike was turn of the century and yours 1936's best, you'd be a lot further up the curve of engineering development and refinement, capable of easily riding more than twice the distance so I'd be looking to buy something new.
Looking back at what's gone from the top of the curve, or it furthest reach, it's easy - in fact, the brain demands it - to concentrate on the improvements over last year's or decade's offering. Looking up at those who spend more, those of us on quality steel framed bikes perhaps tend to dismiss the improvements as marginal, even when they may just be a little more than that. But we're happy with what we have chosen to use, not mocking what the other has, which is how it should be.
