Dangers of DIY car brake maintenance

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peetee
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Re: Dangers of DIY car brake maintenance

Post by peetee »

I used to do all the servicing and repair work on my cars as and when it was possible. Time constraints and lack of a garage were the only impediments. But then technology got in the way and, assuming you could actually understand what actually was the problem, many simple jobs were made more complicated by the requirement for specific tools and/or were as much to do with electronics as they were mechanics. :roll:
TBH, I can see bikes heading that way too.
I have replaced brake pads, discs, drums, lines, cylinders servo and fluid on a variety of vehicles but would never attempt such a crucial job unless I knew the whole system and understood how it functioned and the clues that told me if the job hadn’t been done successfully.
Last edited by peetee on 16 Aug 2022, 2:44pm, edited 1 time in total.
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squeaker
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Re: Dangers of DIY car brake maintenance

Post by squeaker »

Debs wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 1:22pm Putting the brake pads in the wrong ways around is a really dumb mistake - some people just shouldn't work on cars...
That's what I thought once I realised my mistake :lol: But I still do...with increased checking :roll: HPVs are generally much more satisfying to work on, though ;)
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peetee
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Re: Dangers of DIY car brake maintenance

Post by peetee »

Debs wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 1:22pm Putting the brake pads in the wrong ways around is a really dumb mistake - some people just shouldn't work on cars...
I dare say they were familiar with drum brakes but not discs. On drums the wear material is facing out - although not in the same plane. Still a crazy thought process though. Perhaps they thought the contact surface was the wheel rim.
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Paulatic
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Re: Dangers of DIY car brake maintenance

Post by Paulatic »

Perhaps the pads they took out were metal on both sides :roll: :lol:
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Mick F
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Re: Dangers of DIY car brake maintenance

Post by Mick F »

Mike_Ayling wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 1:42am Mick took his car to the Toyota dealer.

I am a Toyota fan.
I'm a fan of the utter reliability and the build quality, but not a fan of their design ............. only experience is of our 2014 Yaris Hybrid.

Excellent car in many ways, but there are quite a few issues.
Wheel lock is terrible. Worst car ever.
Internal storage. Worst car ever.
It gets filthy on the rear due to the shape and the "nooks and crannies" at the rear end. Worst car ever.
There's a "pocket" at the front of the rear wheelarches that fill with muck. Never seen that on a car before.
The visibility out of the front and sides for parking is terrible. Worst car ever.
The info screen can't be turned off without three separate finger dabs. All it would need is an on/off knob.
The headlights only have one bulb. Dipped to full beam is done by re-aiming the lens. The full beam is the same brilliance as the dipped beam. After one bulb blew I bought brighter bulbs. Toyota Opti White ones at £50 a pair. Rubbish! One blew in about six months, and when one blows, you have neither full or dipped on one side. They only sell them in pairs.
Bought better and brighter and far cheaper ones from eBay, and so pleased at the low price, I bought another pair. Three years later, the lights are ok and I haven't need the second set.

The car is excellent in many ways, but rubbish in so many ways too.
I haven't even said all the other issues! :wink:
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Biospace
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Re: Dangers of DIY car brake maintenance

Post by Biospace »

Jdsk wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 2:23pm
Biospace wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 2:18pmThe weight of most modern cars and high speeds in Germany makes discs on the back pretty much universal, although I think you've a point in suggesting they might be a bit unnecessary in Britain for many.
Nowhere near universal. Many current production cars have rear drum brakes. And we'll see even more as regenerative braking rolls out.

Jonathan

There has been a near universal use of rear disc brakes in motor cars over the last decade and a half, but I should have added "with the exception of the smallest and least powerful vehicles", thanks for pointing that out. It's a trend I've frequently muttered about and suspected some of it has been down to fashion.

I don't think there's a single manufacturer supplying the UK which doesn't have rear disc brakes supplied for every one of its model range bar the very smallest. It's not so long ago where only the most powerful medium and large vehicles were fitted with rear discs.

Rear drums will make a comeback as more EVs come to market, there is less 'drag' and where low braking levels are required, they're the cheaper option.

Those 'electronic' handbrakes are little more than an outrageous attempt to create more complication and revenue for the industry, the more so when you have to connect a car to some external software to allow for servicing.
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Re: Dangers of DIY car brake maintenance

Post by Biospace »

Mick F wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 3:45pm
Mike_Ayling wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 1:42am Mick took his car to the Toyota dealer.

I am a Toyota fan.
I'm a fan of the utter reliability and the build quality, but not a fan of their design ............. only experience is of our 2014 Yaris Hybrid.

The car is excellent in many ways, but rubbish in so many ways too.
I haven't even said all the other issues! :wink:

The first Yaris are reputedly the best ones, Japanese-built (universally to around 2003-ish) and nothing but a basic, small car built to a high standard. Pushrods instead of a cambelt, superb build quality, I still see an unusually high number of old-style numberplate ones (pre-2001 ish), a friend took his to well over 200,000 miles on it original clutch (and everything else other than exhaust/battery/brakes), having been the car on which he and his brothers learnt to drive.
pete75
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Re: Dangers of DIY car brake maintenance

Post by pete75 »

Jdsk wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 2:23pm
Biospace wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 2:18pmThe weight of most modern cars and high speeds in Germany makes discs on the back pretty much universal, although I think you've a point in suggesting they might be a bit unnecessary in Britain for many.
Nowhere near universal. Many current production cars have rear drum brakes. And we'll see even more as regenerative braking rolls out.

Jonathan
Which ones? Even crap cars like Ford and Vauxhall mostly have rear discs as do almost all motorcycles.
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Re: Dangers of DIY car brake maintenance

Post by Jdsk »

pete75 wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 5:24pm Which ones? Even crap cars like Ford and Vauxhall mostly have rear discs as do almost all motorcycles.
As above:
Biospace wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 5:18pm ... but I should have added "with the exception of the smallest and least powerful vehicles"...
+ for example the VW ID range.

Jonathan
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Re: Dangers of DIY car brake maintenance

Post by al_yrpal »

Well, I was thinking of downsizing to a s/h Yaris. Dont think I will bother. Which Mag says get a high milage BMW 3 series as a banger, ultra reliable and good to drive.

Helped my neighbour do all the brakes on his Citroen last week. No probs.

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pete75
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Re: Dangers of DIY car brake maintenance

Post by pete75 »

Biospace wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 5:09pm


There has been a near universal use of rear disc brakes in motor cars over the last decade and a half, but I should have added "with the exception of the smallest and least powerful vehicles", thanks for pointing that out. It's a trend I've frequently muttered about and suspected some of it has been down to fashion.

I don't think there's a single manufacturer supplying the UK which doesn't have rear disc brakes supplied for every one of its model range bar the very smallest. It's not so long ago where only the most powerful medium and large vehicles were fitted with rear discs.

Rear drums will make a comeback as more EVs come to market, there is less 'drag' and where low braking levels are required, they're the cheaper option.

Those 'electronic' handbrakes are little more than an outrageous attempt to create more complication and revenue for the industry, the more so when you have to connect a car to some external software to allow for servicing.
Really? Does any of the Tesla range have drum brakes. The humble Fiat 124 had four wheel disc brakes in 1966 as did my little 1978 Alfasud

Electronic handbrakes are good. No forgetting to put the handbrake on when parked and they hold the vehicle when stopped on a hill releasing when the accelertaor is pressed. Since 2013 we've had five cars with them, four Mercedes E class and a Skoda. They've all been problem free, apart from one little glitch on the Skoda , cleared and fixed via the OBD2 port.
Most modern vehicles require software for servicing if only to read any error codes. It's not expensive either - just a wireless OBD2 connector and a free or low cost Android phone app. A lot easier than having to mess about replacing handbrake cables when they break.

It probably costs less to install a solenoid to activate the parking brake than to fit a handbrake lever, cables, and linkages .
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Biospace
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Re: Dangers of DIY car brake maintenance

Post by Biospace »

pete75 wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 6:42pm Really? Does any of the Tesla range have drum brakes. The humble Fiat 124 had four wheel disc brakes in 1966 as did my little 1978 Alfasud

Electronic handbrakes are good. No forgetting to put the handbrake on when parked and they hold the vehicle when stopped on a hill releasing when the accelertaor is pressed. Since 2013 we've had five cars with them, four Mercedes E class and a Skoda. They've all been problem free, apart from one little glitch on the Skoda , cleared and fixed via the OBD2 port.
Most modern vehicles require software for servicing if only to read any error codes. It's not expensive either - just a wireless OBD2 connector and a free or low cost Android phone app. A lot easier than having to mess about replacing handbrake cables when they break.

It probably costs less to install a solenoid to activate the parking brake than to fit a handbrake lever, cables, and linkages .

You mention two exceptions to my "powerful" comment. I should have been far more pedantic, and used words like 'performance', 'sporting', 'oddball', 'fast' and more for accuracy. To your 124 and Sud there's a smattering of other Alfas, the Rover P6, Saab 99 and 900, Citroën's GS and CX. Can you think of any more?

Your last comment is bang on, it is cheaper to fit electric handbrakes than a lever, mounting, cables etc. - for the manufacturer. I needed a handbrake cable last year, for the first time I can remember, it cost well under £40 including fitting. I know of too many people who've had bills the best part of £500 to sort electric handbrakes out on relatively young cars.
Last edited by Biospace on 16 Aug 2022, 7:38pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mick F
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Re: Dangers of DIY car brake maintenance

Post by Mick F »

The Toyota Hybrid system is absolutely excellent.
Recommended to me on this very forum.
Bought a very low mileage SH one, and been utterly smitten by the Hybrid system.
57,000miles done and it's an August 2014 car ......... eight years old.
60mpg even round here with all the hills.

You have zero control over the engine, as it cuts in and out as the system requires it.
Instant power from the Go button. Engine plus EV push out 130bhp instantly, and it's the best overtaking car we've ever had. No down-change, no up-change, no gearbox, no hesitation, no clutch, no gearbox (already mentioned that!), no cam belt, no fan belt, no "nothing" and no worries.
No cables from the pedals - "fly by wire" as it's all computer controlled, even the brakes.

Brake on a downhill or even on the flat, and the actual brakes aren't applied at all. The system brakes by regeneration, and the brakes themselves are only used when braking hard or coming to a stop.
57,000 miles and this is the first time the brakes have been serviced. The fronts were worn - discs and pads - and the rear discs were corroded due to lack of use so replaced as well as the pads too.

Battery under the back seat recharges on overrun mainly, or the engine kicks in to do it if required.
You can do maybe four miles on EV alone with a full battery if you use a light foot and can manage up to 40mph.
The Prius version has a much bigger battery as is even better than the Yaris, but it's also a bigger vehicle.
Mick F. Cornwall
Biospace
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Re: Dangers of DIY car brake maintenance

Post by Biospace »

Mick F wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 7:36pm The Toyota Hybrid system is absolutely excellent.
I've huge respect for Toyota, they show the Europeans how it should be done. I think VW will have studied them very carefully.

Your brakes (the mechanical ones) are unlikely to rely entirely on a computer to be applied, there's likely be a mechanical linkage which will operate the master cylinder directly after sufficient pedal depression. Even that famous French company with its fly-by-hydraulics steering had to have a mechanical connection which would operate in the case of a systems failure.

It could be worth using them from speed down a long hill once a month or so to keep the rear calipers working, they're rarely inexpensive.
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Re: Dangers of DIY car brake maintenance

Post by jb »

Well my crap Ford which is three years old has rear drum brakes, the last crap Ford I had, had rear drum brakes which I had from new until I scrapped it and the shoes were original. Drums obviously aren't the best for high performance but the vast majority of cars will never see their top end performance being used and therefore a long-life dependable brake on the back is all that's needed. I accept that discs are probably cheaper to fit with mass production but that doesn't make them the optimum choice for the owner.
But the thing that really makes them bad is the third brake needed just for parking - that or some complicated mechanism in the caliper.

Having a brake that never actually rubs on the braking surface - thus keeping it rust free - but clamps the axle is asking for a seized up brake the moment its left for any long period.
Cheers
J Bro
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