roubaixtuesday wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 1:39pmI think Brexit is central, not in the direct economic impact, but rather in the decoupling of politics from economic (and other) reality that it ushered in.
Yes. This is a very different point from the economic and trade policies and effects. A certain sort of undesirable behaviour appeared both in the Leave campaign and what happened afterwards. Our constitutional checks and balances weren't up to handling this. That includes both houses of parliament and the heads of government and the head of state and some regulators and two police forces. The Supreme Court did better.
reohn2 wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 1:24pm
.
Sorry my bad,what I meant was you can spectate,but you're involved if you vote.
We'd need to look at what led upto the UK's present predicament and to whether Labour or any other party FTM would've bought the country to where it is now.
I think Brexit is only a small part of the issue, an important part maybe but far from the main cause.
I think Brexit is central, not in the direct economic impact, but rather in the decoupling of politics from economic (and other) reality that it ushered in.
I'm not a cheer leader for Brexit. But I think that is inconsistent.if by politics you mean democracy then people are entitled to vote for a less certain economic future if they so wish
You can't say they weren't told. The remain side went to great detail about financial
Disasters that haven't as yet come to be. People are also at liberty not to believe politicians if they so wish
Both sides seemed to have only a vague relationship with the truth
Last edited by jois on 26 Sep 2022, 1:55pm, edited 1 time in total.
jois wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 1:34pm
I think Brexit is only a small part of the issue, an important part maybe but far from the main cause.
To be fair I never mentioned brexit.
But seeing as you did the Johnson "oven ready deal" Brexit has had and will continue to have many more negative effects which are and will be in future,far reaching for the UK economy.
We shouldn't forget there were many more different brexits that wouldn't have been as harmful as the slash and burn of Johnson's madness.
The negative effects are there for all to see for those prepared to admit it.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
jois wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 1:30pm
Surely having cheaper goods for sale helps offset any tariffs we will encounter?
As above: look for those non-tariff barriers. And it's now UK government policy to remove commonality of standards.
Shirley
PS: And the TCA doesn't include services where the UK has many positions of competitive advantage for trade with the EU.
I'm not pouring over trade figures but from memory we had a trade deficit with the EU and the majority of our exports went else where. There may be barriers but far from insurmountable ones.
Jdsk wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 1:36pm
As above: look for those non-tariff barriers. And it's now UK government policy to remove commonality of standards.
Shirley
PS: And the TCA doesn't include services where the UK has many positions of competitive advantage for trade with the EU.
I'm not pouring over trade figures but from memory we had a trade deficit with the EU and the majority of our exports went else where. There may be barriers but far from insurmountable ones.
I think Brexit is only a small part of the issue, an important part maybe but far from the main cause.
I think Brexit is central, not in the direct economic impact, but rather in the decoupling of politics from economic (and other) reality that it ushered in.
I'm not a cheer leader for Brexit. But I think that is inconsistent.if by politics you mean democracy then people are entitled to vote for a less certain economic future if they so wish
You can't say they weren't told. The remain side went to great detail about financial
Disasters that haven't as yet come to be. People are also at liberty not to believe politicians if they so wish
I wasn't trying to portray you as pro or anti Brexit, apologies if it came across that way.
And I agree that people of course should be able to vote for whatever they want - "Democracy is finding out what people want, then making sure they get it good and hard"!
The point I'm trying to make is different; that the Brexit process has been so corrosively dishonest, it has normalised ignoring reality in favour of rhetoric. Once that culture is ingrained, then economic disaster, whether slow burning or acutely catastrophic, is inevitable. As we see today, with a government blithely putting forward a hard ideological "free market" approach that the free markets simply don't believe will work.
Jdsk wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 1:36pm
As above: look for those non-tariff barriers. And it's now UK government policy to remove commonality of standards.
Shirley
PS: And the TCA doesn't include services where the UK has many positions of competitive advantage for trade with the EU.
I'm not pouring over trade figures but from memory we had a trade deficit with the EU and the majority of our exports went else where. There may be barriers but far from insurmountable ones.
jois wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 1:44pm
I'm not pouring over trade figures but from memory we had a trade deficit with the EU and the majority of our exports went else where. There may be barriers but far from insurmountable ones.
And withdrawing from harmonised EU standards will have major effects on trade with non-EU countries.
Jonathan
As far as I'm aware BS are in harmony, we don't have to be unharmonised if we don't want
Govt stated policy is to review all regs on 18 months. That imposes huge uncertainty on business, which in itself will suppress investment regardless of the outcome.
jois wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 1:34pm
I think Brexit is only a small part of the issue, an important part maybe but far from the main cause.
To be fair I never mentioned brexit.
But seeing as you did the Johnson "oven ready deal" Brexit has had and will continue to have many more negative effects which are and will be in future,far reaching for the UK economy.
We shouldn't forget there were many more different brexits that wouldn't have been as harmful as the slash and burn of Johnson's madness.
The negative effects are there for all to see for those prepared to admit it.
It's quite possibly the only time Johnson has been honest. He said exactly what he was going to do and then did it, apart from NI
jois wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 1:44pm
I'm not pouring over trade figures but from memory we had a trade deficit with the EU and the majority of our exports went else where. There may be barriers but far from insurmountable ones.
And withdrawing from harmonised EU standards will have major effects on trade with non-EU countries.
As far as I'm aware BS are in harmony, we don't have to be unharmonised if we don't want
Govt stated policy is to review all regs on 18 months. That imposes huge uncertainty on business, which in itself will suppress investment regardless of the outcome.
And withdrawing from harmonised EU standards will have major effects on trade with non-EU countries.
Jonathan
As far as I'm aware BS are in harmony, we don't have to be unharmonised if we don't want
Govt stated policy is to review all regs on 18 months. That imposes huge uncertainty on business, which in itself will suppress investment regardless of the outcome.
BS standards have always been amongst the highest in the world, review them doesn't mean changing them or lowering them if they are changed. If doing so hits exports it would be foolish. Which doesn't of course mean they wont
There have been many comments from Brexit supporting MPs that they were in favour of moving away from following EU standards. They don't have to but I suspect they will until they realize the costs in producing things to two different standards for the same product.
jois wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 2:03pm
It's quite possibly the only time Johnson has been honest. He said exactly what he was going to do and then did it, apart from NI
He did a great job didn't je?
Followed by an equally clueless Truss....
As I posted before,you couldn't make this crap up!
Meanwhile those at the bottom of the pile are still working two jobs and using food banks to live as they go back to a cold home.
But don't worry the rich will trickledown their extra wealth.......
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
jois wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 2:03pm
It's quite possibly the only time Johnson has been honest. He said exactly what he was going to do and then did it, apart from NI
He did a great job didn't he?
Followed by an equally clueless Truss....
As I posted before,you couldn't make this crap up!
Meanwhile those at the bottom of the pile are still working two jobs and using food banks to live as they go back to a cold home.
But don't worry the rich will trickledown their extra wealth.......
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden