All as cugel so very well describes, in particular:
"We second-raters are their "customers", as in a sort of large scale protection racket, in which the "protection" is from the very same rascals who are insisting we buy their "protection services". In practice, we are the victims and feedstock of criminal cabals who have managed to decriminalise their activities by making the law just another tool of their oppressions and suppressions of any truly representative government."
"We" allowed, indeed supported, this. Even if many were now to realise that this was a mistake, there is no longer any possibility of undoing it. "We" made our choice and it was disastrously wrong.
Game over.
When I visited the Capitol in Washington the electoral system and governmental arrangement was explained to me in detail. I like it better than our own. But, the US has a highly developed lobbying system and Pork Barrel politics too?
Does any country have a perfect electoral system?
Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
al_yrpal wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 9:24am
When I visited the Capitol in Washington the electoral system and governmental arrangement was explained to me in detail. I like it better than our own. But, the US has a highly developed lobbying system and Pork Barrel politics too?
Does any country have a perfect electoral system?
I wouldn't expect so. But I'm sure that we could improve ours by learning from others.
But the terrible problems in UK politics at the moment don't come from faults in the voting system. They come from inadequate separation of powers and inadequate transparency. The faults in those have been there since time immemorial, but we now have a government that is exploiting them in ways that others haven't.
Articles that haven't aged well... from 31 August...
"There will be a run on sterling. The gilts market will be in freefall. And the FTSE will tumble as global investors take fright and sell off every form of British asset. It might take only a few days, or the government might stagger through until the end of September, but before long Liz Truss and her new Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng will have been forced to call in the IMF to stabilise a collapsing economy. That is, at least, according to the former Chancellor Rishi Sunak. With just a few desperate days left in his doomer leadership campaign, he has declared his opponent's tax and spending plans so wild and reckless they risk a full-blown sterling crisis of the sort we have not seen since the 1970s."
"The trouble is, Sunak is just making himself look childish and petulant."
al_yrpal wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 9:24am
When I visited the Capitol in Washington the electoral system and governmental arrangement was explained to me in detail. I like it better than our own. But, the US has a highly developed lobbying system and Pork Barrel politics too?
Does any country have a perfect electoral system?
Al
Yet the World Democracy Index rates the UK as a full democracy and the US as a flawed democracy. 21 countries are rated as full democracies. Of these 8 are members of the EU. Strange in view of Brexiter's claims that the EU is a dictatorship akin to the former USSR.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
al_yrpal wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 9:24am
When I visited the Capitol in Washington the electoral system and governmental arrangement was explained to me in detail. I like it better than our own. But, the US has a highly developed lobbying system and Pork Barrel politics too?
Does any country have a perfect electoral system?
Yet the World Democracy Index rates the UK as a full democracy and the US as a flawed democracy. 21 countries are rated as full democracies. Of these 8 are members of the EU. Strange in view of Brexiter's claims that the EU is a dictatorship akin to the former USSR.
Yes.
This is a much better way of understanding what's happening than reacting to news stories or cherrypicking examples.
And it's very helpful in identifying areas for improvement by seeing what the best are doing, as above.
Of course it uses scoring criteria that includes many aspects of democracy other than electoral systems.
Jonathan
PS: And other indices are also available, which is only appropriate. : - )
Cugel wrote: ↑25 Sep 2022, 3:17pm
Neoliberalism's character is one of extreme individualism, with the "better" individuals triumphing over "the second raters" (Ayn Rand terminology) via a vicious social Darwinism. Neo liberalism is libertarian in nature, not an ideology seeking a central power, of the familair "world government" kind. They don't like government, only laws establishing and enforcing fantastic privilege for themselves, even if it does seek a single hegemony of economic rules that always tend to favour the already rich elites seeking ever greater power and riches.
These would-be aristocracies of neoliberalism encourage something of a war of supremacy amongst themselves, as well as upon we second raters.. The English neoliberals of the ERG were concerned to do away with the limits imposed by another neoliberal regime - that of the EU. Their main objective was to gain even greater power, unfettered by anything or anyone. The nationalistic fervour characterising much of Brexit was precisely wrought to get rid of any fetters on those within the ERG seeking greater "freedom" for their capital and their many exploitative behaviours - particularly those most numerous fetters applied by the EU.
The logic of much of the current neoliberal stuff is that wealth and power will migrate ever-upward, eventually concentrating in perhaps just one cabal, syndicate or even individual - the individual or small group of them that own and control everything. Already there's a small number of very rich billionaires who are actually doing nearly-that: exerting vast tranns-national influence and control in every sphere you can name.
So, in that sense, there may well be a drive within neoliberalism for "centralisation of power". But it's not the sort of drive and power of the history of our heretofore, based in nation-states with leaders having visions for their nation as a whole, including its citizens. It's a Hobbesian war of all-against-all, with even the biggest neoliberal beasts wary of the other big neoliberal beasts. They all want to own everything and will do each other down to get it.
Consider Putin, Trump, Xi Jinping and others of their ilk. They all employ a variety of political and economic variations of the neoliberal theme in an attempt to increase their personal hegemony. Use of "the nation" is just like the use of a screwdriver, a dispensable tool. They'll wear it out as they do their screwing.
Cugel
Thanks for that, you put it much better than I would. How do you see the relationship between these multi-billionaires and government, how do the two 'do business' I wonder?
The relationship is fundamentally one of bribery & corruption. Big business and its quasi mafia-like behaviours benefit from owning politicians who make laws in their favour and rescind laws (" a bonfire of regulations") that hinder them. Politicians benefit from big business mafias by having large gulps of money and various aids-to-power, such as mass media propaganda organs.
These days, the businessmen are also the politicians, in many cases. Look at the "second jobs" of many Tory MPs and who employs them. Consider also the nasty Rees-Mogg type, who pose as representatives of a constituency whilst using their position and power entirely in service of their own gain and that of their helpmeets.
We second-raters are their "customers", as in a sort of large scale protection racket, in which the "protection" is from the very same rascals who are insisting we buy their "protection services". In practice, we are the victims and feedstock of criminal cabals who have managed to decriminalise their activities by making the law just another tool of their oppressions and suppressions of any truly representative government.
The process has been in train for a couple or more centuries now. For other examples, consider the history of The Honourable (ha!) East India Company and the Tory Party of their day.
Cugel
Cugel
Spot on,on both posts!
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
al_yrpal wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 9:24am
When I visited the Capitol in Washington the electoral system and governmental arrangement was explained to me in detail. I like it better than our own. But, the US has a highly developed lobbying system and Pork Barrel politics too?
Does any country have a perfect electoral system?
I wouldn't expect so. But I'm sure that we could improve ours by learning from others.
But the terrible problems in UK politics at the moment don't come from faults in the voting system. They come from inadequate separation of powers and inadequate transparency. The faults in those have been there since time immemorial, but we now have a government that is blatantly exploiting them in ways that others haven't.
Jonathan
My inserted bold
Without a shadow of a doubt,they've got 2 year to make as much money and tell as many lies as suites them before there's a chance to rid the country of them.
Then four or five years of any government to get to grips with trying to put the country back together again which will take far longer and as been posted up thread one term won't be wnough to undo what these animals have done to my country,worst is they've had the country's blessing in doing it!
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
My impression is this weekend has highlighted Truss/Kwarteng inability/stupidity. Beyond their daft "tax cuts pay for themselves in growth" disproven mantra, their cuts spooked the market causing the £ to crash (making imports/fuel/etc. more expensive, feeding inflation likely meaning interest rate increases ...)
The cuts spooked the market yet despite that Kwarteng spent the weekend saying (in public) how he's looking at further tax cuts. Spook the market causing big impacts for everybody and then rather than reassure he starts spouting he's intending to do more of what has spooked them! Result: sterling further crashes making imports/fuel/gas/etc. even more expensive meaning more inflation and more interest rate rises.
If he'd kept his mouth shut then impacts might not have been so bad but he's listening to nobody and lacks the experience and capability to relaise what he's done and making worse.
Edit: Looks like GB£ has hit a record low against the US$. Commentators expecting base rate to increase to 4% next BoE meeting and 6% in 2023.
“Since hitting its lows, the pound has bounced back rather quickly as investors ramp up speculation that the Bank of England could intervene either by announcing an inter-meeting rate hike or by selling its foreign currency holdings.
We think that the latter is unlikely, although an emergency rate hike cannot be ruled out. In any case, markets now see the bank’s base rate rising to almost 6% in 2023 - a policy move at odds with the government’s attempts to support UK growth.”
Bloomberg reports that the money markets now expect rates to have risen by more than 165 basis points after the BOE’s next meeting in November.
That would take rates to almost 4%, from 2.25% today, and could potentially come as an emergency move soon, plus a hike in November.
al_yrpal wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 9:24am
When I visited the Capitol in Washington the electoral system and governmental arrangement was explained to me in detail. I like it better than our own. But, the US has a highly developed lobbying system and Pork Barrel politics too?
Does any country have a perfect electoral system?
Al
It's demockracy both here and the US,because politicians are being bought by multinational oligarchs.
Stop that,and the playing field would be somewhat more level.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Psamathe wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 10:32am
My impression is this weekend has highlighted Truss/Kwarteng inability/stupidity. Beyond their daft "tax cuts pay for themselves in growth" disproven mantra, their cuts spooked the market causing the £ to crash (making imports/fuel/etc. more expensive, feeding inflation likely meaning interest rate increases ...)
...
Yes, apart from the faulty economics the process has gone wrong. In order to do it this way they had to sack the Permanent Secretary and not ask for an OBR report. And it might not have survived the scrutiny of a campaign in a General Election.
As above the problem here isn't a less than perfect electoral system. It's inadequate separation of powers and inadequate transparency. Those have many bad effects but here it's Ministerial overreach.
Psamathe wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 10:32am
My impression is this weekend has highlighted Truss/Kwarteng inability/stupidity. Beyond their daft "tax cuts pay for themselves in growth" disproven mantra, their cuts spooked the market causing the £ to crash (making imports/fuel/etc. more expensive, feeding inflation likely meaning interest rate increases ...)
The cuts spooked the market yet despite that Kwarteng spent the weekend saying (in public) how he's looking at further tax cuts. Spook the market causing big impacts for everybody and then rather than reassure he starts spouting he's intending to do more of what has spooked them! Result: sterling further crashes making imports/fuel/gas/etc. even more expensive meaning more inflation and more interest rate rises.
If he'd kept his mouth shut then impacts might not have been so bad but he's listening to nobody and lacks the experience and capability to relaise what he's done and making worse.
Edit: Looks like GB£ has hit a record low against the US$. Commentators expecting base rate to increase to 4% next BoE meeting and 6% in 2023.
“Since hitting its lows, the pound has bounced back rather quickly as investors ramp up speculation that the Bank of England could intervene either by announcing an inter-meeting rate hike or by selling its foreign currency holdings.
We think that the latter is unlikely, although an emergency rate hike cannot be ruled out. In any case, markets now see the bank’s base rate rising to almost 6% in 2023 - a policy move at odds with the government’s attempts to support UK growth.”
Bloomberg reports that the money markets now expect rates to have risen by more than 165 basis points after the BOE’s next meeting in November.
That would take rates to almost 4%, from 2.25% today, and could potentially come as an emergency move soon, plus a hike in November.
Ian
I'm not in anyway supporting truss economics. But what they are doing is very close to Keynesian economics, which it's self is very similar to the economics of 1930s Germany.
It has a track record of getting counties out of recession/depression before eating it's self.
Effectively de valuing the Pound by stealth is not always a bad thing. It puts up the price of imports but makes exports less exspensive
The alternative was to increase taxes considerably and that's not always a good thing economically either
Last edited by jois on 26 Sep 2022, 11:00am, edited 1 time in total.
jois wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 10:55am
...
Effectively de valuing the Pound by stealth is not always a bad thing. It puts up the price of imports but makes exports less exspensive
Where do you see the opportunities for the UK to export... countries and sectors?
Psamathe wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 10:32am
My impression is this weekend has highlighted Truss/Kwarteng inability/stupidity. Beyond their daft "tax cuts pay for themselves in growth" disproven mantra, their cuts spooked the market causing the £ to crash (making imports/fuel/etc. more expensive, feeding inflation likely meaning interest rate increases ...)
The cuts spooked the market yet despite that Kwarteng spent the weekend saying (in public) how he's looking at further tax cuts. Spook the market causing big impacts for everybody and then rather than reassure he starts spouting he's intending to do more of what has spooked them! Result: sterling further crashes making imports/fuel/gas/etc. even more expensive meaning more inflation and more interest rate rises.
If he'd kept his mouth shut then impacts might not have been so bad but he's listening to nobody and lacks the experience and capability to relaise what he's done and making worse.
Edit: Looks like GB£ has hit a record low against the US$. Commentators expecting base rate to increase to 4% next BoE meeting and 6% in 2023.
“Since hitting its lows, the pound has bounced back rather quickly as investors ramp up speculation that the Bank of England could intervene either by announcing an inter-meeting rate hike or by selling its foreign currency holdings.
We think that the latter is unlikely, although an emergency rate hike cannot be ruled out. In any case, markets now see the bank’s base rate rising to almost 6% in 2023 - a policy move at odds with the government’s attempts to support UK growth.”
Bloomberg reports that the money markets now expect rates to have risen by more than 165 basis points after the BOE’s next meeting in November.
That would take rates to almost 4%, from 2.25% today, and could potentially come as an emergency move soon, plus a hike in November.
Ian
I'm not in anyway supporting truss economics. But what they are doing is very close to Keynesian economics, which it's self is very similar to the economics of 1930s Germany.
It has a track record of getting counties out of recession/depression before eating it's self.
Effectively de valuing the Pound by stealth is not always a bad thing. It puts up the price of imports but makes exports less exspensive
I thought me imported more than we export. And I'm pretty sure we import a significant amount of our food so more expensive imports means more expensive food. Fuel as well. All will feed inflation likely meaning BoE interest rate rises which will feed through to higher costs for many ...
