Are we all Trussed up...

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reohn2
Posts: 45167
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by reohn2 »

Psamathe wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 9:27am
Paulatic wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 8:14am U turn on 45p tax rate this morning
...
I heard KK on the Radio this morning and ... such arrogance (maybe more so than many politicians). But what I found particularly interesting was how he turned the 45p rate decision back to include Mistrust. Where yesterday she was truing to pass the entire blame to KK ("It was the Chancellor's decision"), today he was very clear that she approved the decision before me made the announcement - so she is dragged into the failings. "Trouble in Paradise"

Ian
KK's and Truss' comments show just how bad the leadership of this country is,they're like two children caught out in a lie both trying to blame each other.
The Tories really are the worst of the worst!
And we've another two years of these selfish cretins to put up with!
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Jdsk
Posts: 24755
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Jdsk »

Psamathe wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 9:27am
Paulatic wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 8:14am U turn on 45p tax rate this morning
...
I heard KK on the Radio this morning and ... such arrogance (maybe more so than many politicians). But what I found particularly interesting was how he turned the 45p rate decision back to include Mistrust. Where yesterday she was truing to pass the entire blame to KK ("It was the Chancellor's decision"), today he was very clear that she approved the decision before me made the announcement - so she is dragged into the failings. "Trouble in Paradise"
And he now thinks that going to the reception was a mistake:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... b4a78ed50a

Should he now return the donations? And on what grounds... moral, constitutional, criminal?

Jonathan
Bonefishblues
Posts: 11020
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Bonefishblues »

Jdsk wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 9:52am
Psamathe wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 9:27am
Paulatic wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 8:14am U turn on 45p tax rate this morning
...
I heard KK on the Radio this morning and ... such arrogance (maybe more so than many politicians). But what I found particularly interesting was how he turned the 45p rate decision back to include Mistrust. Where yesterday she was truing to pass the entire blame to KK ("It was the Chancellor's decision"), today he was very clear that she approved the decision before me made the announcement - so she is dragged into the failings. "Trouble in Paradise"
And he now thinks that going to the reception was a mistake:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... b4a78ed50a

Should he now return the donations? And on what grounds... moral, constitutional, criminal?

Jonathan
Being very stupid, despite his being very clever?
Jdsk
Posts: 24755
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 5:35pm
Biospace wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 5:29pm
Jdsk wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 5:08pm I think that there would have been very similar effects on exchange rates, markets, "confidence" etc.

But that the subsequent political vulnerability would have been different.
Do you not imagine a similar reaction by the markets have led to a similar political vulnerabillity? Whatever, this will go down in political history as one of/the shortest ever 'honeymoon' period for a political leader, a lesson to all who follow.
I expect the change to the higher tax rate to be an easily grasped stick with which to beat sitting Conservative MPs. And the views and actions of sitting Conservative MPs to be the immediate agent for sacking the Chancellor or submitting letters of no confidence in the party leader.
That stick has now gone.

Next up is the Chancellor's speech this afternoon. My guess is that the conference now won't be looking for blood.

Big win for Gove.

Jonathan

PS: I'm surprised at the scale of the reaction in financial markets.
Nearholmer
Posts: 3964
Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Nearholmer »

Another clutch of incompetents, failing to use cabinet government properly IMO.

How on earth they thought it a good idea to go public with a mega-not-budget of that kind without sitting down as a cabinet, discussing the proposals, spending a few days analysing likely political impact and implications for departmental spending, reconvening, refining, then announcing I cannot conceive. She should have made ruddy sure the implications were understood, and that all her generals were dipped in the blood of the decisions.

They could have announced the “take a payday loan to stave off the worst of gas bills” part earlier than the rest, and if that had been done soberly they probably wouldn’t have spooked everyone, and would have relieved many.

I don’t like their policies, but the bit that really gets me is how cr@p they are at the bare basics of management ……. It’s totally staggering!
Jdsk
Posts: 24755
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Jdsk »

Nearholmer wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 10:20am Another clutch of incompetents, failing to use cabinet government properly IMO.

How on earth they thought it a good idea to go public with a mega-not-budget of that kind without sitting down as a cabinet, discussing the proposals, spending a few days analysing likely political impact and implications for departmental spending, reconvening, refining, then announcing I cannot conceive. She should have made ruddy sure the implications were understood, and that all her generals were dipped in the blood of the decisions.

They could have announced the “take a payday loan to stave off the worst of gas bills” part earlier than the rest, and if that had been done soberly they probably wouldn’t have spooked everyone, and would have relieved many.

I don’t like their policies, but the bit that really gets me is how cr@p they are at the bare basics of management ……. It’s totally staggering!
Specific tax changes to be announced in budgets are not traditionally discussed in cabinet. But policies and approaches are, and should be.

But apart from that: totally agree.

Truss has a lot of Ministerial experience by the standards of recently appointed Prime Ministers. But of course most recently in Johnson's dysfunctional government.

I imagine that Truss and Kwarteng think that they had discussed this at length... but that was in settings that were non-governmental...

These policies hadn't suffered the trial by fire of getting into a manifesto and surviving a general election campaign.

And then they put themselves further at risk by sacking the Permanent Secretary and attempting to bypass the OBR.

Transparency and scrutiny are as important to democracy as electoral systems!

Jonathan
Nearholmer
Posts: 3964
Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Nearholmer »

Specific tax changes to be announced in budgets are not traditionally discussed in cabinet.
Tradition isn’t always a good guide. I presume the not-discussion is about lack of trust, but it seems bonkers to me. No business or public-sector operation would function properly without “the finance bod” taking the board and executive team through current and proposed budgets in some detail, plus all the iteration that I described, plus the whole team “owning” the finally agreed budget. It’s basic!
Jdsk
Posts: 24755
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Jdsk »

Where it was discussed:

Screenshot 2022-10-03 at 11.15.27.png
https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/15 ... 9258018817

How to interview people who weasel.

Jonathan

PS: Could help with Kuenssberg's personal development plan.
Bonefishblues
Posts: 11020
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Bonefishblues »

Jdsk wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 11:17am Where it was discussed:


Screenshot 2022-10-03 at 11.15.27.png
https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/15 ... 9258018817

How to interview people who weasel.

Jonathan

PS: Could help with Kuenssberg's personal development plan.
Excellent work by KB.

I do think that Laura's not been quite the same incisive interviewer since she was censured by the Beeb. Yesterday was all rather tame.
Debs
Posts: 1335
Joined: 19 May 2017, 7:05pm
Location: Powys

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Debs »

One U turn down, and (at least) two more to go:

Removing the cap on bankers bonuses

Borrowing mega-bucks to pay the greedy energy suppliers ransom demands, instead of windfall taxing their massive profits.
Psamathe
Posts: 17668
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Psamathe »

Bonefishblues wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 9:55am
Jdsk wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 9:52am
Psamathe wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 9:27am
I heard KK on the Radio this morning and ... such arrogance (maybe more so than many politicians). But what I found particularly interesting was how he turned the 45p rate decision back to include Mistrust. Where yesterday she was truing to pass the entire blame to KK ("It was the Chancellor's decision"), today he was very clear that she approved the decision before me made the announcement - so she is dragged into the failings. "Trouble in Paradise"
And he now thinks that going to the reception was a mistake:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... b4a78ed50a

Should he now return the donations? And on what grounds... moral, constitutional, criminal?

Jonathan
Being very stupid, despite his being very clever?
When people are referred to as "clever" I distinguish between absorbing/regurgitation vast numbers of facts vs understanding principles & ability to analyse.

Those who can retain vast quantities of dry fact might appear "clever"but they are little more than a hard disk - storage and retrieval. No understanding of that information.

Others might not be able to recall an encyclopaedia (they have books and computers to do that for them) but the understand principles, have the ability to properly analyse something and to draw reasonable conclusions appreciating the limits, constraints potential errors, etc.. This is what I regard as being "clever".

Ian
Psamathe
Posts: 17668
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Psamathe »

Nearholmer wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 10:20am Another clutch of incompetents, failing to use cabinet government properly IMO.
...
I think they regard it as the Mistrust/KK show. Everybody else is there just to do their bidding, implement their decisions.

Ian
reohn2
Posts: 45167
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by reohn2 »

Bonefishblues wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 9:55am Being very stupid, despite his being very clever?
Yep,the world's full of clever idiots,trouble is they're running the show :shock:
Worse still more idiots keep voting for them :shock: :shock: :?
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Bonefishblues
Posts: 11020
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Bonefishblues »

reohn2 wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 1:09pm
Bonefishblues wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 9:55am Being very stupid, despite his being very clever?
Yep,the world's full of clever idiots,trouble is they're running the show :shock:
Worse still more idiots keep voting for them :shock: :shock: :?
It's interesting, is't it.

I thought deference had gone with the 60s, but sometimes I wonder.
reohn2
Posts: 45167
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by reohn2 »

Nearholmer wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 10:20am
.......I don’t like their policies, but the bit that really gets me is how cr@p they are at the bare basics of management ……. It’s totally staggering!
Ain't that the Truth?

"How to alienate yourself from the public and your own party in one easy step"
Could be the title of Kwarteng and Truss' new book on the economy :lol: :lol: :roll:
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
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