Are we all Trussed up...

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Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Psamathe »

pete75 wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 1:07pm
pwa wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 10:02am
pete75 wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 9:18am
And of course remainers, specifically mentioned. You're okay in her book, you're on the right side.
I don't want an unthinking drive towards lower taxes at all costs, which is her main focus. So no, I'm anti-growth in her book. Truss was a Remainer at the referendum, if you want to go off on that tack again. She now seems to sail under whatever flag is convenient.
...Unlike you though, she's not anti immigrant , indeed she admires hard working east Europeans.
She's appointed Suella Braverman to cover that aspect.

Ian
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Cugel
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Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Cugel »

pwa wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 8:55am
Cugel wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 8:35am At present, The Truss and familiars are setting up their ultra-neolib stall, inclusive of the nominations of various mythical enemies, such as "the enemies of growth" added to "the woke" and those pesky "climate fanatics". There is no general election yet so she can be as mad as she likes. All sorts of precedents will be set that will be very difficult to rescind. For example, she is at present intent on dismantling the civil service, from which many howls of pain and dismay are emanating. Benefit claimants are for it too. Watch the NHS left to rot and die over the next two years.

Come election time, there'll be more effective rabble rousers to distract "the people" from their various difficulties with eating, heating and shelter. The usual favourite is a war, in which some of those evil folk beginning at Calais can be vilified and made the evil enemy all troo patriots must fight, rather than criticising their patriotic leaders. Lizzy has a habit of making belligerent noises about various foreign enemies.

"Shock & Awe" in action.

Wait, watch and see.

Cugel
You overestimate her strengths. She is a rubbish orator. She doesn't have her MPs behind her. And her growth project, if it works at all, may take years to pay dividends. And while an election might be two years away, her party will not want to embark on the last twelve months of that with a very unpopular leader showing no sign of turning things around.
You don't seem to be aware of the primary intent of Truss and her backers. It's fundamentally to reduce government and its institutions to an absolute minimum, leaving financiers, rentiers and big business with a free rein (and reign) even greater than they already have now. She'll damage and destroy as much "government" as she can to provide that "free market" she and her puppeteers are always seeking - a market in which only capital and its owners are free, to exploit the rest of us and "their" resources in any way they see fit, which will include an even greater planet rape & pillage than heretofore.

In one way, then, it hardly matters if the Tories don't win the next election - although I'd be surprised if the Party doesn't come up with some sufficiently appealing attraction to persuade voters to forget their personal interests in favour of some mad jingoistic "patriotic" foreign adventure that would never be pursued by politicians interested in the national interest rather than those of themselves and their tiny cabal of greedy sociopaths. The mass media will co-operate with the scam, as usual.

However, imagine Labour win the next election. What significant powers and policies do you think the Establishment will allow them to operate? I fear they'll find themselves with a sold-off government every part and parcel of which has been annexed by the financiers et al. The new Labour government will have no significant ability to make the desperately needed changes, as that City and mass media Establishment won't let them.

This bodes ill since if "the people" do become seriously desperate for betterment of their ever-worsening conditions of life, the only alternative left will be a politics far more radical than the ineffective tinkering with the status quo a Labour Party is likely to provide. We'll see something akin to Germany between the two world wars, with gawd-knows what emerging as the political "solution". A fascism backed and operated by those same financiers, rentiers and businessmen who wrought the parlous conditions in the first place is one likely candidate.

Yes, yes, I know. It can't happen here.

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by pwa »

pete75 wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 1:07pm
pwa wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 10:02am
pete75 wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 9:18am
And of course remainers, specifically mentioned. You're okay in her book, you're on the right side.
I don't want an unthinking drive towards lower taxes at all costs, which is her main focus. So no, I'm anti-growth in her book. Truss was a Remainer at the referendum, if you want to go off on that tack again. She now seems to sail under whatever flag is convenient.
Yes I know but she ain't now. No one as zealous as a convert. Once again an example of a brexit supporter causing division. Unlike you though, she's not anti immigrant , indeed she admires hard working east Europeans.
Pete75, never above a bit of baiting when he's bored.
reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by reohn2 »

Psamathe wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 11:58am
pwa wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 8:55am You overestimate her strengths. She is a rubbish orator. ...
That is the main thing I noticed seeing the excerpts from her speech on TV News. Ignoring the twaddle coming out of her mouth she comes across very badly, no "presence", nothing convincing (unless you are already "a believer"). She is really useless at standing-up and public speaking. Useless at interviews as well.

Ian
It's not her talking that concerns me,but her and her government's madcap ideas and the damage they are capable of between now and the next GE!
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Dingdong
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Joined: 22 Apr 2022, 4:59pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Dingdong »

reohn2 wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 2:40pm
Psamathe wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 11:58am
pwa wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 8:55am You overestimate her strengths. She is a rubbish orator. ...
That is the main thing I noticed seeing the excerpts from her speech on TV News. Ignoring the twaddle coming out of her mouth she comes across very badly, no "presence", nothing convincing (unless you are already "a believer"). She is really useless at standing-up and public speaking. Useless at interviews as well.

Ian
It's not her talking that concerns me,but her and her government's madcap ideas and the damage they are capable of between now and the next GE!
Indeed, she reminds me of the mad hatter, gone down the rabbit hole...
cycle tramp
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Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by cycle tramp »

'It's not out of the question that she may be gone by Christmas'

Insider quote from the House of Parliament after the question was asked 'how many letters of no confidence' had been received about Luz Truss current performance.
Motorhead: god was never on your sidehttps://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=m ... +your+side
cycle tramp
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Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by cycle tramp »

'Liz Truss is madder than a box of snakes'
Dominic Cummings
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pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by pete75 »

Psamathe wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 1:32pm
pete75 wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 1:07pm
...Unlike you though, she's not anti immigrant , indeed she admires hard working east Europeans.
She's appointed Suella Braverman to cover that aspect.

Ian
Good point, well made.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Psamathe
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Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Psamathe »

When they put their crashing the economy down to "external factors" and "what is happening around the world" I get confused as to whether they are so dumb they cannot see what they've done and cause or are they just so arrogant that they can't bring themselves to admit what they've done.

Either makes them somewhat unsuited to positions of power, but I do wonder "to dumb to recognise what they've done" vs "inability to admit their fault".

Ian
pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by pete75 »

pwa wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 1:53pm
pete75 wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 1:07pm
pwa wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 10:02am
I don't want an unthinking drive towards lower taxes at all costs, which is her main focus. So no, I'm anti-growth in her book. Truss was a Remainer at the referendum, if you want to go off on that tack again. She now seems to sail under whatever flag is convenient.
Yes I know but she ain't now. No one as zealous as a convert. Once again an example of a brexit supporter causing division. Unlike you though, she's not anti immigrant , indeed she admires hard working east Europeans.
Pete75, never above a bit of baiting when he's bored.
Hmmm I recall you giving that as your reason for supporting Brexit - too many EU migrants and you certainly didn't give the impression you thought too many German or Dutch or French people were coming here.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
pete75
Posts: 16370
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by pete75 »

Psamathe wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 5:07pm When they put their crashing the economy down to "external factors" and "what is happening around the world" I get confused as to whether they are so dumb they cannot see what they've done and cause or are they just so arrogant that they can't bring themselves to admit what they've done.

Either makes them somewhat unsuited to positions of power, but I do wonder "to dumb to recognise what they've done" vs "inability to admit their fault".

Ian
Some don't recognise, some won't admit and others think that any action they take must be right because they have taken it.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by pwa »

pete75 wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 5:08pm
pwa wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 1:53pm
pete75 wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 1:07pm
Yes I know but she ain't now. No one as zealous as a convert. Once again an example of a brexit supporter causing division. Unlike you though, she's not anti immigrant , indeed she admires hard working east Europeans.
Pete75, never above a bit of baiting when he's bored.
Hmmm I recall you giving that as your reason for supporting Brexit - too many EU migrants and you certainly didn't give the impression you thought too many German or Dutch or French people were coming here.
I spelled my views out carefully for you on numerous occasions, but you still bring it back to the table as if I had said I didn't like migrants. Which I didn't say, and have refuted every time you have said that is what I said. You know what you are doing and so do I.

There is a difference between disliking migrants and, on the other hand, just wanting better balanced migration with numbers coming in being more like the numbers going out. I'd have thought somone capable of nuanced discussion would have grasped that by now.

For anyone who isn't familiar with my views, I am keen on balanced migration that doesn't lead to unsustainable population growth, but I am also in favour of welcoming migrants who wish to make a positive contribution to UK life. In a balanced way. Whether they be from Eastern Europe, Eastern Asia, or anywhere else. That is not an "anti-migrant" stance.
cycle tramp
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Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by cycle tramp »

pwa wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 7:49pm
pete75 wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 5:08pm
pwa wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 1:53pm
Pete75, never above a bit of baiting when he's bored.
Hmmm I recall you giving that as your reason for supporting Brexit - too many EU migrants and you certainly didn't give the impression you thought too many German or Dutch or French people were coming here.
I spelled my views out carefully for you on numerous occasions, but you still bring it back to the table as if I had said I didn't like migrants. Which I didn't say, and have refuted every time you have said that is what I said. You know what you are doing and so do I.

There is a difference between disliking migrants and, on the other hand, just wanting better balanced migration with numbers coming in being more like the numbers going out. I'd have thought somone capable of nuanced discussion would have grasped that by now.

For anyone who isn't familiar with my views, I am keen on balanced migration that doesn't lead to unsustainable population growth, but I am also in favour of welcoming migrants who wish to make a positive contribution to UK life. In a balanced way. Whether they be from Eastern Europe, Eastern Asia, or anywhere else. That is not an "anti-migrant" stance.
I've always struggled with the ideals of migration issue myself. On one side there's the side of me who wants uk to be food secure and for the countryside to receive more protection from development...
..on the other side of me is someone who thinks we should welcome everyone who is persecuted, who are at risk of harm and who face a very unsecure future.. a bit like voting by mass population movement - where places like Russia lose populations to those countries which aren't run by quite so blood thirty maniacs.
..there has to be some balance somewhere... without going all Jules Verne Propeller Island....
Last edited by cycle tramp on 6 Oct 2022, 9:06pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Psamathe »

cycle tramp wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 9:03pm
pwa wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 7:49pm
pete75 wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 5:08pm

Hmmm I recall you giving that as your reason for supporting Brexit - too many EU migrants and you certainly didn't give the impression you thought too many German or Dutch or French people were coming here.
I spelled my views out carefully for you on numerous occasions, but you still bring it back to the table as if I had said I didn't like migrants. Which I didn't say, and have refuted every time you have said that is what I said. You know what you are doing and so do I.

There is a difference between disliking migrants and, on the other hand, just wanting better balanced migration with numbers coming in being more like the numbers going out. I'd have thought somone capable of nuanced discussion would have grasped that by now.

For anyone who isn't familiar with my views, I am keen on balanced migration that doesn't lead to unsustainable population growth, but I am also in favour of welcoming migrants who wish to make a positive contribution to UK life. In a balanced way. Whether they be from Eastern Europe, Eastern Asia, or anywhere else. That is not an "anti-migrant" stance.
I've always struggled with the migration issue myself. On one side there's the side of me who wants uk to be food secure and for the countryside to receive more protection from development...
..on the other side of me is someone who thinks we should welcome those who are persecuted, who are at risk of harm and who face a very unsecure future..
..there has to be some balance somewhere... without going all Jules Verne Propeller Island.
I don't see those as conflicting.

Ian
cycle tramp
Posts: 3532
Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by cycle tramp »

Psamathe wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 9:06pm
cycle tramp wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 9:03pm
pwa wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 7:49pm
I spelled my views out carefully for you on numerous occasions, but you still bring it back to the table as if I had said I didn't like migrants. Which I didn't say, and have refuted every time you have said that is what I said. You know what you are doing and so do I.

There is a difference between disliking migrants and, on the other hand, just wanting better balanced migration with numbers coming in being more like the numbers going out. I'd have thought somone capable of nuanced discussion would have grasped that by now.

For anyone who isn't familiar with my views, I am keen on balanced migration that doesn't lead to unsustainable population growth, but I am also in favour of welcoming migrants who wish to make a positive contribution to UK life. In a balanced way. Whether they be from Eastern Europe, Eastern Asia, or anywhere else. That is not an "anti-migrant" stance.
I've always struggled with the migration issue myself. On one side there's the side of me who wants uk to be food secure and for the countryside to receive more protection from development...
..on the other side of me is someone who thinks we should welcome those who are persecuted, who are at risk of harm and who face a very unsecure future..
..there has to be some balance somewhere... without going all Jules Verne Propeller Island.
I don't see those as conflicting.

Ian
I just wonder if we're going run out of land, y'know.
Motorhead: god was never on your sidehttps://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=m ... +your+side
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